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To say that the TV Licence should be abolished?

398 replies

Appalonia · 04/12/2024 19:12

When I look at what I watch on TV these days on the BBC, it's really only Strictly, repeats of TOTP and Glastonbury . There's nothing else that interests me. I listen to Trevor Nelson on R2, but that's it. I watch Netflix, Amazon much more and some shows on ITV, C4 or Sky Arts. And a lot of interviews on YouTube and podcasts. I also object to how the BBC posits itself as the voice of truth and neutrality, but it really isn't these days, on so many issues.

Why are we forced to pay for a service that has had its day and is no longer fit for service?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
ArtfulBee · 04/12/2024 23:59

Thepurplepig · 04/12/2024 22:54

This is absolutely without a doubt the funniest thing I have ever read on here. You are completely delusional if you think the good old bbc is anything other than a left wing echo chamber.

No, you're delusional if you think the BBC is a left wing echo chamber.

By being pretty much down the centre, it probably appears left wing in comparison to most UK media - the bulk of which is right wing.

Janebigwither · 05/12/2024 00:05

I gave up on it 2 years ago. I watch dvd’s, You Tube, my youngest at 17 still watches Disney plus, and I stream non live programming from other channels available on Freeview.

The BBC used to be excellent; my kids loved CBeebies / CBBC but now they are all over 18, it’s just not worth it for me. I miss BBC Four but watch You Tube instead for my culture vulture programmes.

I listen to LBC, read a physical or online newspaper and read. I do miss the Beeb but the cost is not worth now for me personally.

MasterBeth · 05/12/2024 00:07

Vintagevixen · 04/12/2024 23:58

Agreed.

The constant pushing of gender ideology and obsession with drag queens means I no longer respect or watch the BBC.

Get rid.

What obsession with drag queens?

I'm pretty sure the BBC is more obsessed with snooker, antiques, word games, the news, buying and selling houses, old Top of the Pops, ballroom dancing, cooking and proceedings from the Welsh Parliament than drag queens.

redalex261 · 05/12/2024 00:12

I pay my licence fee. Never grudged it as I absolutely loved the BBC. Radio, iPlayer, best documentaries and impartial, factual news coverage (I thought). Oh and no adverts! Great.

Then, began to notice all the Gender ideology bullshit online, noticed there was absolutely no news coverage at all of the many ensuing controversies and serious people trying to get this covered or discussed in mainstream media. Nothing on all the employment tribunals, court cases here or abroad that would normally have merited a mention. No documentaries about validity and safety of hormone treatments, surgeries, women's' rights infringements, childhood transition, safeguarding risks or WPATH files. Cass Report barely (and only grudgingly) covered by news programmes. Subsequent coverage over the past 12 months had been forced on them by events but has not been in any depth. Stopped watching a while ago.

The gaping miss on this made me question the entire concept of the cherished BBC impartiality. If they can wilfully fail in their duty to cover such a huge issue in even the most perfunctory manner then what else are they choosing to ignore?

Sadly, agree the BBC is no longer fit for purpose - murdered by its' own leadership.

UnstablefromDunstable · 05/12/2024 00:19

There's lots of fault we can find with the BBC, but I think it's one of Britain's best features that we have a national broadcasting organisation which tries to provide something for everyone and to present things impartially without being unduly influenced by billionaire owners or advertisers with vested interests. Does it do all this perfectly? Of course not. But does it do it as well as we could reasonably hope, and better than other countries? Mostly, in terms of its output (though perhaps not its HR processes), I'd say so. The licence fee system is also less than perfect, but if the BBC is not going to get its revenue from advertising, it has to get it somehow.

ScorpioRising83 · 05/12/2024 00:46

You don't have to pay it. Regardless of the police type uniforms and the big talk the enforcement bods have no right to enter your home. I tell them at the door I don't fund sexual predators and nonces. That sees them off.

QueenCamilla · 05/12/2024 02:18

They don't have to enter your home to blight your life for years on end.

I had just had a c-section with a newborn in ICU, when a letter arrived in my home and was received by DH who was rather shocked to read the following...
The letter explained that I had committed a crime for which I had been fined. Due to my avoidance to pay the aforementioned fine, the amount due was increased and was now in excess of £2000. Due to my further failure to engage, a court hearing had happened in my absence in which I was found "guilty" and an enforcement action has been sanctioned. Failure to engage with enforcement officers (bailiffs) will result in an arrest order issued.
There were no further explanations, just a phone number to call.

"What have you done!?" was the initial reaction of my DH (a police officer).

Long story short, it was all a mistake by BBC/Capita who had put my name at the neighbours house (who had no licence). So I never received any letters - they were going to neighbours. Later on we moved to a different house altogether.
BBC/Capita refused to look into it as I had been found guilty in court. End of.

It basically became a case of "wrongful conviction" and I had to go and try to be seen and heard at the courthouse, where I had to get past numerous smirky "oh, all of you are innocent, isn't it?".
One of the most ridiculous things I heard was asking me to prove that I DIDN'T live with my neighbours. Apparently, proving where I DID live, wasn't enough... 🙄

Once I convinced one court official of my innocence (yeah, ridiculous!) a second court hearing had to be held, to overturn my conviction.
Then the court "forgot" to recall the bailiffs and they continued to ring, threatening to force the doors and take anything of value, calling me a convicted criminal...

In the end, from the point that the BBC misplaced my name, to the point in time that all the sorry saga was over... It was three years! And three years of public money wasted!

There is no way this ⬆️ sounds sane to anyone elsewhere in the world (North Korea maybe?).
I haven't had a TV licence or an actual TV since. 🖕🖕🖕 to BBC.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 05/12/2024 02:41

Thepurplepig · 04/12/2024 22:54

This is absolutely without a doubt the funniest thing I have ever read on here. You are completely delusional if you think the good old bbc is anything other than a left wing echo chamber.

The Director General of the BBC is a former Tory electoral candidate. He's a former Deputy Chair of a local Conservative Party branch. He was appointed to his position by a Tory Government. If you think he was put into his role by Tories in order to maintain the BBC's "strict impartiality", then I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

The BBC's news and current affairs output is hilariously pro-conservative/pro-State. It's even more strident in Devolved nations. It beggars belief that the BBC QT can turn up in a city like Dundee, the single most pro-Independence, pro-SNP part of Scotland there is, and yet the audience is full of outraged conservatives they somehow managed to locate in SNP central, flinging constant anti-scotland gripes at the one pro-Indi panellist (again, how is this representative? The SNP had been dominant in Scots politics for nigh on 15 years and indi/uk opinion constantly hangs at 50/50, why are pro-Indi voices outnumbered 4-1 on the panel?), who is then interrupted constantly by the host, and never permitted more than a 10 second uninterrupted window to speak, while the pro-union members of the panel are left to speak unfettered?

Total coincidence of course, and nothing at all to do with the fact that QT's long term producers were individuals with known links to the Conservative party, or that these people in the audience presented as "concerned members of the public" were time and time again revealed to be sitting and former Tory councillors.

In an article for The Conservation, Matt Walsh, head of the School of Journalism, Media and Culture at Cardiff University, wrote: “Removing politicians from the list of most frequent guests shows that several high-frequency panellists are being used, most of whom come from the political right.
“The regularly featured journalists are typically opinion columnists who contribute to right-wing press outlets such as the Mail or the Telegraph, or who make appearances on right-leaning broadcasters like GB News and TalkTV.”
Indeed, the five most regular non-political guests have all written for The Spectator: Isabel Oakeshott, Julia Hartley-Brewer, Kate Andrews, Tim Stanley and Camilla Tominey

@midgetastic

Being middle of the road and giving all sides a voice is not the meaning of left wing nor echo chamber

If only the BBC was, in fact, anything approaching "middle of the road" and did indeed give all sides an equal voice, it would be a dramatic improvement on the status quo.

Reporting Scotland - every SNP policy announcement is "controversial", even when the policy itself is identical to those elsewhere in the UK, or the policy is no different to that of a pro-union party. I've lost count the number of policies RS describes as "flagship", even though by definition you can actually only have one flagship policy. Just the other night, 3-5 minute section about a "crisis" in the Scots NHS, no qualifiers at all about how this crisis is defined, just an unqualified claim by the reporter that there is, in fact, a crisis. Similar time devoted to a trust being put in special measures. Same thing happens in Wales, except it's given a 20 second slot and no particular "sky is falling" slant.

I guess this is what happens when you work for a cosy "job for life" institution and then you realise that if the citizens of the country you report on decide to enact a constitutional change, at best, you are going to end up being re-interviewed for your role.

BBC Question Time: analysis of guests over nine years suggests an overuse of rightwing voices

The top five most frequent non-politician panellists all write for The Spectator.

https://theconversation.com/bbc-question-time-analysis-of-guests-over-nine-years-suggests-an-overuse-of-rightwing-voices-232315?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=bylinetwitterbutton

CrazyAndSagittarius · 05/12/2024 02:53

I think your premise that "it's had its day and is not fit for service" is fundamentally wrong. I love the BBC. I think we'd se a sharp decline in quality and an increase in advertising (which I can't bear!) on other currently paid for services (they are already starting to do this by having "cheaper" subscriptions with ads - I think this creep will continue and losing the BBC will further facilitate this move).

I watch all sorts produced by the BBC, loads of iplayer, bbc sounds and radio 4. I like the idea if having a national broadcasting service that isn't affected or influenced by sales/companies and advertising. They don't always get it right but the thing to do about that is to try to make improvements, not tear the whole thing down.

CrazyAndSagittarius · 05/12/2024 02:54

Annabella92 · 04/12/2024 19:34

There are so many excellent old programmes the BBC made that they don't make available. Kids in bedrooms on YouTube do though, for free.

Edited

When the BBC launched iplayer they wanted to make their whole back catalogue available (not sure how far back they ere thinking) but they weren't allowed as it was deemed to be unfair competition wise.

ShaggyPutItOnWhatAPongItGaveHimTheShakesNShivers · 05/12/2024 02:56

The BBC is riddled with so many problems, disgraceful ideologies which it refuses to debate and disgusting open 'secrets'.

The many adverts telling us how trustworthy they are just defy all logic and parody.

And in spite of how faux-innocent and pretend-horrified they are when any of their secrets are uncovered, they still proudly display their figurehead statue of Eric Gill to leave us in no doubt as to their true organisational status.

But, they are far from the only deeply troubling company out there and, maybe I'm a huge hypocrite, I do greatly enjoy a large amount of their programming.

It's ludicrous and outrageous in the modern day that they assume everybody will find it simply impossible to live without them and expect us all to pay them; far worse and utterly indefensible that you have to pay them to use a competitor.

Imagine if you bought all of your bread from your little local family bakery, but Hovis somehow managed to get the government to allow them to charge you a legally-enforceable tax for buying and eating bread - by default assumption - with harsh measures at their disposal if you refuse to pay them.

They really do need to move to a subscription model, like all the others. I would hold my nose and sign up, and I know it would cost me more than it does now - but at least it would swap their shameful longstanding MO for one with a modicum of honour and integrity, without feeling the need to bully pensioners.

I'd want to see some kind of safeguards so that older people without Internet access wouldn't be excluded against their will from accessing BBC programming - maybe continue the current system for people over a certain age and those registered as vulnerable for the time being, but without the presumed-guilty default - but it would be the easiest thing in the world for them to protect their product and revenue with modern technology.

If you subscribe to Netflix and just stop paying them, they don't bully you through the courts or otherwise come gunning for you; they simply make their product for which you haven't paid them unavailable to you.

The BBC - like Royal Mail - are living on past glories and taking huge advantage. They need to be taught now that they aren't special and can't just expect to keep lucrative and far-reaching historical privileges forever, for no other reason than that they really like having them.

CrazyAndSagittarius · 05/12/2024 02:56

keepingsanity · 04/12/2024 19:37

I suspect a subscription model will mean increased prices - consider what you pay for other subscriptions £25/50/100 per Month! The licence fee is very good value in comparison. Radio, TV, news, sport, language channels, world service and websites (revision sites /good food etc)

The licence fee goes to other channels like channel 4 not just the bbc

I see the absolute tripe that other counties USA produce on news channels etc and hope moving away from the licence fee doesn't mean a move to advert funded /politically biased programming.

This! It's amazingly good value and god forbid we turn into US type news channels!

username299 · 05/12/2024 02:57

You're not forced to pay for it if you don't watch it.

ShaggyPutItOnWhatAPongItGaveHimTheShakesNShivers · 05/12/2024 03:00

username299 · 05/12/2024 02:57

You're not forced to pay for it if you don't watch it.

100% incorrect - this is one of the main elephants in the room about which people are complaining.

Would you happily pay Tesco a significant 'shopping for food fee' by default for the privilege of doing all of your shopping at Asda?

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 05/12/2024 03:00

@redalex261

The gaping miss on this made me question the entire concept of the cherished BBC impartiality. If they can wilfully fail in their duty to cover such a huge issue in even the most perfunctory manner then what else are they choosing to ignore?

It is not just their repeated failure to cover aspects of topics that means they time and time again fail to enact "impartiality".

The BBC's interpretation of "impartiality" is completely out of whack with any realistic definition of the term. The BBC's approach is never to seriously question or challenge a government politician, even when it's patently obvious they are lying through their teeth. This is for fear of being viewed as "partial".

No.

Permitting politicians to knowingly, repeatedly lie on State TV without challenge is not "impartiality", it's a complete failure of journalistic practice and shows the BBC utterly lacks integrity. There is nothing "impartial" about interrupting a liar mid-lie and reiterating fact, but it's something BBC journalists resolutely refuse to do because of the fact they work for State TV, and therefore the government can, if they have a mind to, render them persona non grata. This is how we ended up in the farcical situation of Laura Kuenssberg repeatedly citing "Downing Street sources" for her headline news. If it was credible, then whoever is feeding her it would have no issue whatsoever putting their name to it, and by law, if it's a policy announcement, that needs unveiled in the House, not through a BBC puppet. In reality, she was being fed whatever old spin 10 Downing Street wanted to put out that day, but dutifully pitched it as "news" on "impartial" state TV.

This is what gave rise to the "if somebody tells you its raining, you look out the window" quip, something that Kuenssberg habitually failed to do when reporting her "Downing Street source".

CrazyAndSagittarius · 05/12/2024 03:05

redalex261 · 05/12/2024 00:12

I pay my licence fee. Never grudged it as I absolutely loved the BBC. Radio, iPlayer, best documentaries and impartial, factual news coverage (I thought). Oh and no adverts! Great.

Then, began to notice all the Gender ideology bullshit online, noticed there was absolutely no news coverage at all of the many ensuing controversies and serious people trying to get this covered or discussed in mainstream media. Nothing on all the employment tribunals, court cases here or abroad that would normally have merited a mention. No documentaries about validity and safety of hormone treatments, surgeries, women's' rights infringements, childhood transition, safeguarding risks or WPATH files. Cass Report barely (and only grudgingly) covered by news programmes. Subsequent coverage over the past 12 months had been forced on them by events but has not been in any depth. Stopped watching a while ago.

The gaping miss on this made me question the entire concept of the cherished BBC impartiality. If they can wilfully fail in their duty to cover such a huge issue in even the most perfunctory manner then what else are they choosing to ignore?

Sadly, agree the BBC is no longer fit for purpose - murdered by its' own leadership.

You must have missed it because the BBC have covered loads of those issues/events.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 05/12/2024 03:06

username299 · 05/12/2024 02:57

You're not forced to pay for it if you don't watch it.

No, you are merely harassed, pestered, sent threats in the post, and treated as if you are defacto in breach of the law anyway.

username299 · 05/12/2024 03:08

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 05/12/2024 03:06

No, you are merely harassed, pestered, sent threats in the post, and treated as if you are defacto in breach of the law anyway.

Then fill out the form declaring you don't watch live TV. My mum doesn't pay it and hasn't been harassed.

ShaggyPutItOnWhatAPongItGaveHimTheShakesNShivers · 05/12/2024 03:11

CrazyAndSagittarius · 05/12/2024 02:56

This! It's amazingly good value and god forbid we turn into US type news channels!

But it should always be a choice and not an arrogant assumption that everybody will want and value it.

Even if I found a place selling premium steaks for 5p each, I still wouldn't expect to see vegans clamouring to queue up to fill their freezers.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 05/12/2024 03:12

username299 · 05/12/2024 03:08

Then fill out the form declaring you don't watch live TV. My mum doesn't pay it and hasn't been harassed.

No. I refuse to because

  1. I utterly object to that model, and
  2. It doesn't always stop the harassment in any case

Who else should I write to in order to tell them I don't want their product and therefore they should stop harassing me? Ferrari? Cartier? Rolls Royce?

CrazyAndSagittarius · 05/12/2024 03:13

ShaggyPutItOnWhatAPongItGaveHimTheShakesNShivers · 05/12/2024 02:56

The BBC is riddled with so many problems, disgraceful ideologies which it refuses to debate and disgusting open 'secrets'.

The many adverts telling us how trustworthy they are just defy all logic and parody.

And in spite of how faux-innocent and pretend-horrified they are when any of their secrets are uncovered, they still proudly display their figurehead statue of Eric Gill to leave us in no doubt as to their true organisational status.

But, they are far from the only deeply troubling company out there and, maybe I'm a huge hypocrite, I do greatly enjoy a large amount of their programming.

It's ludicrous and outrageous in the modern day that they assume everybody will find it simply impossible to live without them and expect us all to pay them; far worse and utterly indefensible that you have to pay them to use a competitor.

Imagine if you bought all of your bread from your little local family bakery, but Hovis somehow managed to get the government to allow them to charge you a legally-enforceable tax for buying and eating bread - by default assumption - with harsh measures at their disposal if you refuse to pay them.

They really do need to move to a subscription model, like all the others. I would hold my nose and sign up, and I know it would cost me more than it does now - but at least it would swap their shameful longstanding MO for one with a modicum of honour and integrity, without feeling the need to bully pensioners.

I'd want to see some kind of safeguards so that older people without Internet access wouldn't be excluded against their will from accessing BBC programming - maybe continue the current system for people over a certain age and those registered as vulnerable for the time being, but without the presumed-guilty default - but it would be the easiest thing in the world for them to protect their product and revenue with modern technology.

If you subscribe to Netflix and just stop paying them, they don't bully you through the courts or otherwise come gunning for you; they simply make their product for which you haven't paid them unavailable to you.

The BBC - like Royal Mail - are living on past glories and taking huge advantage. They need to be taught now that they aren't special and can't just expect to keep lucrative and far-reaching historical privileges forever, for no other reason than that they really like having them.

Edited

Soooo you want the BBC to move to a subscription model like Netflix etc and learn.that they are "special" so should be treated the same as all the channels/services, yet you want access to the BBC to be free for pensioners still? Sounds like you want your cake and to eat it? What do you think Netflix would say if we say they had to make they or content free to pensioners? You can't have it both ways, either the bbc is a national broadcaster with special status, so that pensioners on low incomes and those that are blind etc can get cheaper or free licenses. Or they are the same as all the other providers. In which case no one gets a free ride and it's a subscription model where you pay and get it, you don't pay and you can't access it.

ShaggyPutItOnWhatAPongItGaveHimTheShakesNShivers · 05/12/2024 03:14

username299 · 05/12/2024 03:08

Then fill out the form declaring you don't watch live TV. My mum doesn't pay it and hasn't been harassed.

But surely you realise that the BBC are far from the only company who broadcast live TV?

At the moment, if you never ever watch any live TV at all except for ITV and Channel 4, you are legally forced to pay the BBC for this.

username299 · 05/12/2024 03:15

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 05/12/2024 03:12

No. I refuse to because

  1. I utterly object to that model, and
  2. It doesn't always stop the harassment in any case

Who else should I write to in order to tell them I don't want their product and therefore they should stop harassing me? Ferrari? Cartier? Rolls Royce?

If you don't declare you don't watch live TV, they'll continue to ask you to pay. If you want to be harassed, then carry on as you are, that's your choice.

ShaggyPutItOnWhatAPongItGaveHimTheShakesNShivers · 05/12/2024 03:18

CrazyAndSagittarius · 05/12/2024 03:13

Soooo you want the BBC to move to a subscription model like Netflix etc and learn.that they are "special" so should be treated the same as all the channels/services, yet you want access to the BBC to be free for pensioners still? Sounds like you want your cake and to eat it? What do you think Netflix would say if we say they had to make they or content free to pensioners? You can't have it both ways, either the bbc is a national broadcaster with special status, so that pensioners on low incomes and those that are blind etc can get cheaper or free licenses. Or they are the same as all the other providers. In which case no one gets a free ride and it's a subscription model where you pay and get it, you don't pay and you can't access it.

Today's pensioners haven't grown up with Netflix as part of their lives for decades.

I never said that all older folk must have it free - just that, after all this time, there should be a transition period during which the BBC slowly yields their longstanding privilege of 'charging by default and assumption', rather than just instantly dropping some of the most vulnerable members of our society like hot potatoes.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 05/12/2024 03:24

username299 · 05/12/2024 03:15

If you don't declare you don't watch live TV, they'll continue to ask you to pay. If you want to be harassed, then carry on as you are, that's your choice.

No, I didn't "choose to be harassed", the BBC does this by default.

I have no need to write to any of the companies I mentioned, even though I don't use their products, because they'd fall foul of the law if they acted in the same way the BBC does therefore they do not harass me. Why is there a discrepancy?

The biggest giveaway, though, that shows I did not "choose" harassment, is that the letters the BBC sends to my address every single month are not addressed to my name, they are addressed to the "legal occupier".

So two things -

This proves the BBC in fact have no idea at all who I am, and that they also have no idea at all who lives at my address, they simply mail every single postal address that does not have a registered licence, in order to tacitly accuse the "legal occupier" of breaking the law and attempt to bully and frighten them into buying a licence. The BBC knows nothing whatsoever about me, or my legal state with regard to the licence, and has no idea at all whether I have any need of one. They simply assume that because there is no licence at my address, somebody must be living there, and somebody must be in breach of the law, and somebody must surely be obliged to purchase a licence.

They threaten "legal occupiers" with fines and prison sentences, on the back of nothing more than a few assumptions. This is how palpably ludicrous the status quo is.

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