He got angry but was IBU?

[BlimeyThisLensIsClear]

NC as I often post to try and get perspective from the nest of vipers/wise women here and it helps me as I try a navigate my perimenopausal phase of life.

Long journey with DH on our own. Me driving. Him making a call re one of our DC. I’d suggested we make the call on the journey. He’d agreed but in retrospect says he hadn’t wanted to.

He is using speaker phone. The woman on the line has made an error in her understanding and he doesn’t correct her. I give him the information. Let’s say it’s a date.

So I say ‘It’s not that date, it’s this date’ to him. He puts his hand up and with an angry face makes it clear he doesn’t want my input so I pipe down.

Call finishes and so I try to explain re the wrong date and why I know it’s the wrong date and why I felt the need to give him that information whilst he was on the call. He puts his hand up to stop me. Doesn’t let me finish my sentence. Talks over me telling me he knows etc. I am trying to finish my sentence but he talks over me so I shut up. This was less than a minute I’d say.

After a while I say ‘you just spoke to me horribly, did you mean to?’ I was calm.

He angrily says ‘I’m sorry if you are upset but …

• I knew the information
• you shouldn’t have interjected
• I didn’t talk angrily
• you are over reacting

all said at length and angrily. All the while interrupting me. Talking over me.

In the end I got really upset not because he’d been angry with me, but because he was then dismissing my feelings about it. I cried. He called me manipulative so then I shouted that I wasn’t having him tell me I’m being manipulative. Big row now with me sobbing and him telling me I’m being manipulative.

Obviously this isn’t an isolated incident but he is still utterly convinced that he is right and I was the unreasonable one to have interjected so his anger was justified and i shouldn't have had an issue with it.

I think what I did was intended to be helpful but I appreciate could have been annoying but I believe that his response was disproportionate.

What do you all think?

Was he right to get angry in the first place and even more angry when I asked him if he’d meant to talk to me horribly?

Thanks in advance 🙏

I think ya both bu in all honesty. It is rude and annoying when someone interjects in a conversation when you're on speakerphone but imo you both over reacted. He was clearly annoyed, that's an over reaction sure, but in the car with nowhere to go, asking him if he meant it while tensions are still high was pushing it imo then sobbing about it while in the car driving I can see how this has added fuel to the fire.

To me it seems like a silly disagreement that has got out of control - you shouldn't have injected in someone else's conversation. He should not have overreacted but then you should have left it, both had the opportunity to calm down before you discussed if it even needed discussing. Do minor disagreements usually blow up like this? I think arguments in the car are the worst as there is nowhere to go to cool off, perhaps that didn't help.

So he's already trained you not to have a voice? Oh OP, you cannot keep doing this. By continually posting little snapshots instead of one with decent context you are creating a way to self-harm/beat yourself up. I suggest it's time to move forward and get professional help with getting clarity.

Speak to your GP and ask for counselling.
Speak/email Women's Aid and ask if there is any local help/support.
Start reading certain books that are frequently posted here. The main one can be downloaded as a free pdf - search for Lundy Bancroft, Why does he do that?

This is not a good life. Why do you think you don't deserve one?

Hole in one. I see it. I post snap shots every now and again just to check my thinking and so I can stay strong and resolute in my path ahead. I do think I would change my behaviour if I could go back. I’d have not mentioned the call, not given the date, not tried to defend myself, not tried to be heard. Not picked up the bloody racket! But it had been a good day, I got sloppy.

All in hand. Thanks. The end is close. It really does help to check out my thinking now and then with snap shots so I don’t get sucked into one way of thinking and I do challenge myself about my part in the dynamic. I’m not without fault. But yes, I do deserve better and this helps me stay strong on the path towards it 💪 Thank you.

So there was a task that needed doing to which had been allocated to DH.

You had been waiting a long time for him to do it.

You finally cajole him to do said task and he gets one of the key facts wrong.

You try to correct him, to make sure that said task actually gets sorted.

He bollocks you for interrupting him, doesn't admit he was wrong and DARVOs the situation to make you the bad guy.

Wouldn't your life just be simpler without him in it??

Sorry, but I think the person your responding to, has it quite nailed on.

You don't need everyone else to nod and agree and tell you he's a shit. You clearly think he is, so why the need to phrase it as a question.

If you have to report your partner to social services, why the fuck are you still with him?

" Hole in one. I see it. I post snap shots every now and again just to check my thinking and so I can stay strong and resolute in my path ahead. I do think I would change my behaviour if I could go back. I’d have not mentioned the call, not given the date, not tried to defend myself, not tried to be heard. Not picked up the bloody racket! But it had been a good day, I got sloppy. "

You are tricking yourself @BlimeyThisLensIsClear by posting these out of context situations, as you will get too many replies by posters who are not trained to see the typical patterns of abuse and they will tell you are equally at fault. this will confirm your willingness to stay longer in this relationship to 'try'.

The longer you stay, the more confused is your internal switchboard of what's acceptable, healthy boundaries and what is normal.

you also think that shrinking yourself into nothing with no voice would have saved you. Saying nothing might have saved you from his disproportionate anger during the car ride, but abusive people always will find a way to release their emotions on you, you might have done something'wrong' later.

He called me manipulative so then I shouted that I wasn’t having him tell me I’m being manipulative. Big row now with me sobbing and him telling me I’m being manipulative. Obviously this isn’t an isolated incident but he is still utterly convinced that he is right and I was the unreasonable one to have interjected so his anger was justified and i shouldn't have had an issue with it.

Do you know what, specifically, he meant by "manipulative"? The claim that a woman crying is inherently "manipulative" is a HUGE talking point/grievance right now in online misogynist communities (and is often manipulative in itself, trying to make people self conscious about doing something very natural). Given that he seems to have fixated on this claim when it's not true and not relevant to the situation, is there any chance that he's been spending time there and/or is a bit of a misogynist in general?

Bottom line: he said, and showed, that your feelings and well-being don't inherently matter to him. He's only going to listen to you/foster two-way communication if you're saying what he wants to hear. Your saying or doing something he doesn't like disqualifies you from being worthy of his time, consideration, and attention. This is bad because the two of you are in a relationship and it should matter to each of you how the other feels, even if you don't completely understand the reasons for the upset/hurt and wouldn't have felt upset/hurt in the other person's place.

It really does help to check out my thinking now and then with snap shots so I don’t get sucked into one way of thinking and I do challenge myself about my part in the dynamic

But why? It doesn't matter if he is wrong or you are wrong or the tone is wrong or the words are wrong or the place is wrong. Step back and realise it really doesn't matter. What matters is the relationship is bad, what matters is the relationship cannot be saved, what matters is there is absolutely nothing you can do to change it. What matters is stop focusing on the is it me or him problem and realise the relationship is toxic anyway. You aren't soul mates but the opposite. Understand AND accept you are not suitable together and find a way out - that is all you need to do now. Look forwards and up instead of downwards grubbing around looking to find who is right or wrong.

It. Does. Not. Matter.

Well at least you know in future not to correct him! Ever!

And when he blames you for not correcting him, remind him of the car journey will you??

I would be pretty angry in the OP scenario tbf. Being given a task to do by someone who could easily do it themselves; when they have all the info and you don’t; they then hover over you to micromanage the process; and ‘criticise’ you in public when it starts to go wrong – it’s like a whole collection of deeply irritating things, none big in themselves, but taken together are perfectly designed to make you resent having bothered to try to help at all.

Spot on. Except it wasn’t even him that got it wrong. It was the woman on the phone. So I wasn’t even correcting him. Which is what I tried to then explain.

Simpler? Yup. For sure!

I didn’t give him the task. We were talking about it and I suggested doing it then as it was on our mind.

I was driving so couldn’t do it or would have.

He happily agreed. Only later he said he didn’t actually want to do it to ‘explain’ his anger.

He had all the info. She made an incorrect assumption that I pointed out as he hadn’t noticed. It was her getting it wrong. Not him.

I immediately shut up when told to.

He wasn’t ‘helping’ he was parenting - DC needed something and he was sorting it. As is his role.

Despite all of that, are you saying that shouting someone down is acceptable and proportionate given I was responding calmly?

Oh the times that had already happened!!

I’m saying that that’s what it would feel like to me, and that’s why I would be annoyed. Whether I’m right or wrong about that isn’t worth arguing about is it? We don’t know each other so it didn’t actually happen.

Thanks but it actually saves me a lot of rumination time. Usually I can just let it go but I sometimes get caught up in romantic notions of him changing, or may be it’s not that bad or darker thoughts that I must be awful and people are better off without me. Honestly, it helps. It keeps me sane and saves me burdening friends too much too. Thank you. The end point is in sight. There is a journey I’m on and I know the direction. This helps keep me on track 🙏

Thanks. It is helpful. It is how he felt and why I tried to explain myself. Either way I think his behaviour was disproportionate and I was right to point it out calmly when it had settled. His response to that was abusive.

But would you be furious and belittling to the person who had spoken to you?

If not then you’re nothing like OP’s husband and shouldn’t be justifying his behaviour.

If yes, your behaviour is unacceptable and you need to learn how to treat people.

Oh that’s very interesting. There have been some ‘but what about white men’ comments and when I said to him a while ago that as a tall, middle class, white man, he has layers of privilege he won’t be aware of (as part of an interesting and friendly discussion on representation) he hit the roof and shouted at me for ten minutes (I stayed quiet) - men are oppressed apparently.

Where can I find this stuff to check it out? As a mother to a son I should get my head around this stuff anyway.

It would make total sense because I am having a really difficult time in life with lots of things going on - worst time of my life - and I went to him for comfort, crying and managed to say ‘I’m feeling really upset..’ before he started getting angry and absolutely could not see how broken I was in that moment. Total rage and coldness.

There’s something about your posts that remind me of my ex. He would always focus on my reaction to something and downplay what he did that upset me. As though me getting upset and shouting was the issue, and not his own behaviour.

I’m getting the same vibe from your posts. Even your comment around self improvement - exactly what he would say. That way, he came across as the calm, measured and reasonable one whereas I was the hysterical emotional one. And it allowed him to score brownie points over me by going on about my reaction and not what he did.

So I do feel like there is more to what happened. Context is very relevant and there isn’t enough of it in your posts.

You know it, you know you know it, you just need to pull the trigger OP.

One quote that opened my eyes a little when leaving my verbally abusive bully of a (now) ExH was "A conversation about your feelings shouldn't end in an argument"

Im watching my brother do the same to my SIL, and as i said, btdt myself, i know you won't leave until you're ready, just.. don't leave it too long, the longer you leave it, the more damage there is to you and your DC's that has to be undone.

It's been 7 years since i left here, and he is still occasionally a cunt, i still have to remind myself not to rise to it/respond, they can't argue with silence.

I mean - i can see both points of view here. No, he should not be shouting rudely at you, but at the same time, is this part of a wider issue? Do you constantly interject? He could be frustrated with that - it's very very irritating to have someone interject when you are on the phone speaking to someone else - and it can be seen as meddling - do you do this often? Either way - he sounds angry and perhaps went overboard, he wasnt kind. Im not sure about the sobbing/crying part, but it sounds like you and him need to speak when everyone is calm.

Yes, and I wish she wouldn't keep name changing because her points are really quite revealing, and not in the way she thinks. She always tries to make out she's being abused, but the way she presents herself when talking to other posters is completely different to the version of herself she describes in these interactions with her husband. Calm and calculated, and yes, manipulative.

And no, I'm not the husband, but I do feel rather sorry for him.

Nope. That’s not me.

Sorry it reminds you of that. I can actually relate to how your ex was. I feel like it happens to me too. Goad goad and goad again. Say the most horrible things (use vulnerabilities as weapons and point scoring) and then wonder why I’m shouting/sobbing but call me the abuser. I have learned to calm myself down in the face of rage because I’ve had a lifetime of practice - until I can’t any longer and I go.

I had zero intention of upsetting him. I tried very hard not to.