Assisted Dying (Continued)

[Nordione1]

Follow on from the previous thread which is nearly full.

Can anyone help me with a link to the previous thread? Interesting conversation

It is an important conversation no doubt, but as the last 1000 comments have shown, people are pretty entrenched in their positions. No one is changing minds.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5220421-assisted-dying?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

There was a lady in my father's nursing home - I noticed her because she was always sitting near reception, not because she was the only one with these feelings. She was treated with utmost kindness by all the staff. She wanted to die. Every day, every time someone came past, she made this clear, The staff knew she wanted to die, that she hated every minute of her life. Three years this carried on that I know about, until she finally died in her sleep.

It’s not about changing minds, it’s ok to have a healthy debate. It’s important people respectfully hear all views. I had a big old debate with my best friend and we don’t agree but we managed to bring up various points and it was interesting learning different perspectives.

@pencilsinspace asked me on the other post how many people that may have been coerced into choosing death, even though we are aware that they will die in six months or so potentially. Anyway, how many of them would it take for me to change my mind on my position of agreeing with this stance? Because I personally believe in freedom of choice on this matter.
As the people keep citing, canada for reference bear in mind somebody put. I don't know if these figures are right, but these are what somebody else put four percent of people that die in canada are by assisted suicide. Now, obviously, we don't know if anybody's been coerced in them figures.
I don't particularly thinking numbers, but I do know, if that is the figure for Canada, then really, it's a very slim minority of that 4% that will probably end up being coerced and quite frankly, I think the majority of people. who wanted should our way the minority. Because otherwise the majority will suffer.
Having said all of that, I would like to think that the lawmakers in this country can and will make the healthcare professionals try to establish if somebody is being coerced, and I bet you would find it would be few and far between, because I genuinely believe that health professionals. Want the best for people

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications/health-system-services/annual-report-medical-assistance-dying-2022.html#

In 2022 there were 13,241 MAID provisions in Canada.

How slim a majority of 13,241 people is an acceptable number?

Which as I have just read is 4 percent of those that died in Canada in 2022. So those that died by assisted death was only four percent, four bloody percent, and out of that I would summize we do not know who have been coerced, but it's not gonna be four percent, is it.
Assisted suicide is a very small percentage. Anyway, then an even smaller percentage are the people you are worried about bloody hell. I am not going to change my mind. Because if you look at the facts and the figures they are not putting people down at a rate of massive percentages, it is 4% And quite frankly, I think in this country, people shouldn't be suffering and for maybe a couple of people who knows, I'm not sure we don't know, we're only surmising here. I don't have a problem with any of this. You're not gonna change my mind. Quite frankly, I think it's a bit silly specifically, when you see it is only 4% anyway that have ever done this way.

I’m not trying to change your mind.

I’m sharing figures which put your vague numbers into context.

The numbers from Canada are interesting, and shed some light that can guide UK regulators in refining the details of the Bill currently progressing through Parliament.

The report for 2022 is available at https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/hc-sc/documents/services/medical-assistance-dying/annual-report-2022/annual-report-2022.pdf

And the numbers do need to be looked at in full. Not just focussing on the long tail to find exceptional examples.

It's a simple question.

The relevant figure for comparison is not the total number of deaths (of which you say AD is 4%) it's the total number of assisted deaths.

So if 13,241 people access assisted dying, how many of those would need to have been coerced or otherwise not truly consenting before you said that's too many?

Can you give us a rough percentage?

How many people dying in agony is too many for you @PencilsInSpace ?

I still wouldn't change my mind as I don't believe health professionals will be assisting healthy people to die . The vast majority of docs have the do no harm approach

@VoyagerOfTheTeenYears if people are “dying in agony” then that suggests to me a failure in, or lack of, palliative and end of life care; not a need for MAID.

I actually thought that ut would have been higher than four percent. The way folks are citing Canada as if we should worry thought it woukd be much higher it doesn't seem that bad to me

Rubbish as docs will tell you even good palative care can not take all the pain away

And not all pain is physical.

We already have assisted dying in the UK But it goes by another name
Unsafe discharges!!!

There’s been a lot of interesting points made on this thread too, if people are interested in continuing to discuss assisted dying/assisted suicide from all angles. This includes links to an important report from WomanDaresTo showing that women are uniquely vulnerable to abuse and pressure around this.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5217789-assisted-dying-is-sexist?page=1

Ridiculous hyperbole.

Just found out in Canada it's the 6th reason in amount of people a year in how people die. So it's not as big as you are made out by opponents

My dad was discharged on 16th September He died on 6th October. We had the funeral last week. He had prostate cancer which had spread. He was so weak that he fell at the bottom of the stairs and had a cardiac arrest and died. His body had to go to coroner first due to the fall. DM asked for help and was told he wasnt sick enough. He slept in a leaning over position He couldnt get onto a bed properly because he was in so much pain in his back.

Told he wasnt sick enough for help. But i bet if assisted dying had been legal two months ago he would have been told he was sick enough for that! So before you reply the way you have please try and think there is a reason for the way people feel.

Seven or eight months ago i agreed with this bill Now im not so bloody sure. And reading the elderly parents board unsafe discharges are far too common.

I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm trying to get some clarity on what you mean when you say the majority should outweigh the minority. I'm trying to get an idea of the size of the majority and minority you have in mind.

I'm not thinking about healthy people for now. Let's assume there's a person who is terminally ill, within an estimated 6 months of death, who does not really want to die but who ends up accepting AD because of coercion, feeling like they're a burden, being incorrectly assessed as having mental capacity, fearing inadequate care as the only alternative, or whatever. Just one person.

The question I am asking is: in your opinion, how many wanted assisted deaths are worth one person's life being taken when they did not want to die?

They are going to die they have 6 months left so what's the point if coercion for 5 months faster it won't be as fast as that any way

So to be clear, you don't really mind how many because they're going to die soon anyway?