Children need community

[theprincessthepea]

AIBU for thinking that children and young people thrive when they are in an environment where there are multiple people looking out for them and the responsibility doesn’t solely fall on mum and dad.

Yes, legally the parents are the primary caregivers and do a majority of the work. I’ve just noticed so many threads where people seem offended at the idea that some grandparents want to get as hands on as the parents sometimes when it comes to care, or the debate of childfree friends vs friends with children whereby as soon as you have kids nobody is interested.

I grew up in the 90s/00s and yes, my mum and dad were with me all the time, but we also spent a lot of time with other people - aunties, we were always at my mums friends houses, and there was a community of adults. In my neighbourhood I knew pretty much all the adults - who to stay away from and who would look out for us whilst we played out.

I find these days young people don’t have that in the same way. We are all in our little family bubbles with the internet. Not much interaction with other people because we are all busy - and being a child seems so stale when it’s that way.

I’ll add I have 2 kids - I had my daughter young - and yes this meant that I wasn’t out and about as much as my friends - but I was amazed at how involved they were and still are in my daughters life and my family are like second parents - I hated it at first but now that she is a teen (and I’m starting to annoy her haha!) it’s so nice to know that she has other adults that I trust, that she can be around.

I understand circumstances are different and we don’t all have the support we need but surly being part of a community is super important and can makes both your experience as a young person better and the experience of raising children more pleasant.

If I think about the summer holidays - our favourite moments are interacting with people.

Im not saying to dump our children with anyone and everyone either. Or to force people to be with kids as I get not everyone cares enough (or has to).

I'd love to see a study on this - but I'm not terribly convinced a 'community' or the mythical 'village' has much impact if your immediate family are caring and there are no adverse events (poverty, bereavement, addiction, abuse or neglect).
If anything being left with multiple different adults increases the risk of abuse - I see many people professionally who were abused by 'trusted adults' (often from the extended family, although sadly the dad or stepdad are probably commonest).
My parents moved for work many hours drive from nearest relatives so although relationships with aunts/uncles/gp were good we'd only see them max 3 times a year on visits. Can't say it bothered me as a child or adult.

As you say, circumstances differ.

My MIL's advice when DD was crying non stop as a 3 month old baby, was to leave her crying in her cot, shut the door and turn the radio up really loudly. Was I supposed to trust her to look after DD ? She had no interest in her anyway, so it's a moot point, but still.

Moving away or frequently, toxic or abusive childhoods etc mean that people aren't as connected as before. Sometimes, that's actually better for the children, rather than continuing the intragenerational trauma.

Totally. My kids grew up in a village where neighbours would tell them off if they crossed the road without looking, fetch them home if they fell off their bike, let me know if their den had become and eye sore etc. They knew which door to knock on if ever there was an emergency. I trust my neighbours and they trust me. There is no anti-social behaviour in the village because all the kids now that all the adults know one another.
A young child’s social group should be Immediate family then wider family then friends and neighbours before they start school in order to be well adapted for Reception.

It depends on the type of person children are surrounded by: one or two good caregivers are better than a village of people who will impact them negatively.

I agree OP, multiple interested and caring adults is better than just two. Having a shared childhood with multiple children rather than just your own siblings offers far more possibilities for later connection.

Obviously, the presence of abusive or toxic relationships is bad, but it's also bad to let the fear of abuse/toxicity limit your child's interactions with other people.

In cases where there is significant abuse from parents the evidence is that having just one adult who is interested in a child and cares about them can have a significant positive impact.

There's a surprisingly large amount of abuse and neglect out there.

A lot of the "village" these days is in institutions. Pre schools, nursery, schools. I worked in a school for many years and our pastoral team went above and beyond. I remember one in particular who spent the night with a girl who had tried to kill herself in hospital when the parents were nowhere to be seen.

There's also brownies, scouts, and for older teens the village can be army/air/st John cadets.

I agree and I’m lucky my child has this. My parents are very involved with all of their grandchildren and often have them over for sleepovers, I’m always babysitting my nephews and having them here to stay over. I want it to be like a second home for them and my son really benefits from that. He also gets it from our scouting community where there are a number of trusted adults who he is happy to go off with at camps and days out etc and he has formed really special relationships with them. He has had a lot of loss in his life so this is important to me that he is a part of a bigger family than just us.

I agree, I am a single parent with one teen dd so have made a lot of effort to invest in extended family and friends so dd still feels part of a wider community.

I'm lucky that my parents and sibling still lives close by, I also have close friends that I grew up with that have been actively involved in dds life.

Community is important for everyone imo.

As I was typing I was thinking about how careful we have to be as yes, there are people that abuse children - however I am noticing that there is more awareness around this now. I also don’t necessarily mean having lots of people to babysit - but more so having a support network of people - I agree with Octavia64 that this can come in the form of school and institutions etc.

@BlueSilverCats I have friends who cannot leave their children with relatives because of similar reasons.

@Octavia64 I agree with the study - having at least one person who cares is better than having no one who cares. But surely having a villge that looks out for you, not just the child, but the family, can make that unit stronger?

@Girliefriendlikespuppies I also raised my daughter alone and whilst I know I have given her everything in my power, I know that I couldn’t have done it alone and I love seeing how close she is with family.

I agree but as an only child mum of one it's hard

There is truth in that about one parent I guess. Didn't work for me. I had one abusive parent and one who adored me but the one who adored me was scared of the abusive one, and didn't really see their behaviour as significant abuse so didn't stop it. I really am struggling with the aftereffects though I can see how it would be worse if both parents had been nasty. I just feel a bit bad for struggling when I had one nice parent and that should have been enough.

Nobody else knew about the abuse because we presented as a perfect family and I was told to stop making a fuss when I told the non abusive parent. She did love me but she saw me as her perfect little girl who couldn't have let that happen I guess. She thrived on denial. So although I was a very loved and very pampered and spoiled child in many ways, I felt alone a lot. I would either push people away or the to cling onto them, I felt like an orphaned child at times even though I had a good attachment to my mother. I even have a psychiatric label (BPD/EUPD) that is usually used for people who had attachment issues as a child and I know it puzzled those professionals who worked with sorting out my mental health how I could even have this diagnosis. Of course that was a good few years ago now so research has probably changed , it's possible BPD is something you're born with like ASPD can be. I don't know. Sorry, I just realised I've ranted a whole bloody essay!

Yes, I think this makes a big difference OP.

I've always encouraged my kids to have connections with other adults, their grandparents, aunts, friends of the family. It's always been hugely supportive for them emotionally and intellectually as well. I remember when my middle daughter was in her stroppy teen years, she was always arguing with us about social issues. She went to stay with some family friends - she got on with the daughter very well. When she came back she was much quieter about the stuff she'd complained about before.

What had happened, I found out later, is they had a big group discussion about such topics, and she was shocked to find that her parents weren't the only people who had certain ideas - other people she respected and cared for did as well.

This is coming from the 'childfree' perspective who has lots of godchildren, friends children and nieces & nephews.

Part of being in the village is also contributing to the village - people talk about wanting a village in the sense of free, on-demand childcare where you do things the exact same way a parent does. You're not allowed an opinion, or a voice in how you do things. And when you need a favour back (i.e. a lift home from the hospital), there's always an excuse or a reason not to. I give grace for the first year or two that it's me giving 99% whilst they give 1%, but there comes a point where enough is enough.

Circumstances do differ massively, all my grandparents died before I was born, I had an uncle in Canada who I didn't meet til I was 15 and an auntie who we only saw at Christmas. So my parents were on their own with me and my sister, they had some good friends who we called aunties and uncles and I don't think I missed out by not having any relatives, but it is nice to see my kids with their aunties, cousins and grandparents and it's nice that we have the village to help us

I agree that a community is a real benefit, when you can find/build a good one! Ours is a mixture of family, school friends, hobby friends, neighbour friends, and old family friends etc. I think it's good for broadening minds and experiences to learn from more than just your parents, and it's part of how we learn time get along with people, e.g. if you're getting a lift home from hockey with Sophie's mum, it's better to say hello and check whether she wants kit in the boot or on the back seat, and acknowledge that yes it's really turned colder today etc. Or playing with mum's friend's child who isn't quite your age and doesn't really like the things you do, but you manage to find some common ground and learn to enjoy each other's company now and then. I think the community is a big part of how we learn and improve a lot of social skills that are very useful later in life.

That's quite apart from any favours that are needed like childcare etc.

In principle yes. It’s not all that easy for some of us though. Both my parents are dead (my mum died shortly after my DD was born), none of my siblings live in the same city as me. I am a single parent and my DD’s dad is around but contributes nothing. I am not close to any other family.

I have worked hard to make sure my DD has a good network of supportive people outside the immediate family who are like godparents.

But it is really hard. I am never going to have a “village” in the sense that it’s talked about on here.

Sometimes I feel a bit judged by people on here as if you have an obligation to create this mythical village but for some of us it just isn’t possible.

In an ideal world yes, in reality we're alone so his community are his 3 siblings, 2 dogs, 1 cat.

We don't have that sort of community where we are in London, as most families we know are international and have family abroad. I don't think the children are disadvantaged by it - it's an affluent area and families have paid childcare on hand through nannies and easily accessible after school care. Our dcs go to a small prep where our family is known and class sizes are under 15, so pastoral care is strong.

Rather than sitting in a relative's living room watching TV or playing on the street, parents take their dcs out to a range of extracurriculars, sports and cultural activities around town, which are led by experienced teachers and activity leaders, and is definitely more interesting for the parents. DCs spend summer holidays doing different camps, doing specialist activities they love like dance and gymnastics, with a big group of friends.

Theoretically, I think it is good to know your neighbours and have a sense of community but personally I am a private person and I don't want the hassle and expectation that comes with that sometimes.

There is a strong sense of community where I live but it has its downsides like when the children were little your time was other people's so constant interaction with other children had to be facilitated at the park after school or continuous playdates. In many ways it is ideal childhood stuff but I sometimes I just wanted to enjoy their childhood without hangers on, do our own thing as a family. We live near a beach and in the summer after school I would plan to go for a picnic and then others would get wind of it and they would join us. Sometimes, that was suffocating.

Equally, my DH is a good Dad and involved and we'd often no need for outside help.

I think an extended family massively enriches your life ...so many of my childhood memories involve grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins. Of course if you don't have that, you can still have a great childhood and be happy but in an Ideal world of course you're right op

That's depressing for me because I don't have a community.

My children have parents who adore them, a few relatives we see in a fairly formal way and some friends I make an effort to socialise with. They have a great school and lots of extra curricular activities.

But ultimately only my DH and I who truly love them and are there for them. They appear to be thriving.

How young were you when you had your first child, though? Is it not that other people were involved from the outset because you were living with your parents and/or not in an economic position to raise your child wholly yourself or with a partner?

I wish I had a community.

sadly my parents and in laws are too selfish. They are fit, healthy and wealthy/ retired and want to do as they please, we all bore them.

it breaks my heart and makes me really fucking angry. They had the benefit of their village/ community and dh and I were raised by wider family, but they don’t feel any obligation to spend time with their grandchildren

Your parents and ILs aren’t the only options for a community, though. If you want one, go out and create one. It doesn’t need to be family.