Assisted Dying

[Nordione1]

I dont know what section to put this in. Im more upset about the vote for it than I thought I'd be. I feel like we have crossed a rubicon somehow.

Yes but it is available to people with depression in some countries. And once it is introduced, who is to say it won’t end up being expanded to include conditions like depression?

And they are wrong it's assisted dying as they are dying anyway

Stashing enough morphine is not as easy as that without collusion from your prescriber or enduring pain and withdrawal in order to amass a stash

I believe it will creep towards vulnerable people like me

As a disabled person I do worry about a slow creep into dystopian territory definitely, whereby a person's life is weighed and measured as having value or not.

Nobody should suffer needlessly however so I do see both sides

Your DH has the right to decide he wants to live. His right to live, however, shouldn't deprive someone else of the right to make a different decision.

Just been listening to the radio that before. Harold Shipman did his horrible thing. Doctors would give a nod and a wink and would literally give extra morphine to ease suffering and to help people pass over, but they are now reluctant to do that because of Harold Shipman.
So potentially, this is why this bill is a good thing.

What if a person regards an assisted suicide as a good death for themselves?

A family member has just died of an infection having spent the last year confined to bed, doubly incontinent, almost deaf and blind. And begging to die. Absolutely no quality of life, in physical pain and emotional distress. The last few days were spent in a drug induced sleep/ coma. And that was a kind death. I'm sure if he could have been given the means, legally, he would have ended his life sooner. Instead he had to continue until a horrible infection took him off.

Believe me even the best current palliative care does not always work unless it strays into the territory of assisted dying. Its fine and dandy for people to say there is a clear line between the two but this is not always the case. Again its not discussed and therefore decisions are not always made by the person or by their close ones but by the clinicians caring for them....sometimes with tactful conversation but often without.

So we should never pass any law just in case that law is changed in the future?

I don't understand how anyone can read these horrific accounts of witnessing loved ones die in agony and not agree with assisted dying. It will only be there for those that want it. What gives anyone the right to deny anyone of a peaceful death if it is what they choose 🤷

The thing I worry about is that this will end up creeping into the territory of rationing NHS treatment and the vulnerable (the elderly for example) will be deemed not worth spending the money on. And then AD is seen as an easy option to ease their “pain”. I’ve actually seen a post on here about a year or so ago where someone actually suggested not offering certain treatments to older people because it was unfair on the younger generations. I’m in my mid-40s now and feel like in a few short years I am going to be made to feel like a burden on society. So things like this AD bill worry me.

Pandora’s box has now been opened and there will be no going back.

Oh I’m fully aware of the issues - I’ve been in favour of assisted dying since I was about 17 and I‘m not naive as to potential problems. That said, on balance, I’m adamantly in favour of it because I think individual bodily autonomy is paramount. I also think that it’s important to learn lessons from how other nations have implemented assisted dying and avoid problems, rather than just dismissing the entire concept.

Because the Bill doesn't say depression is an illness that is included and it would take an Act of Parliament (unlikely to get through) to change that

the same "expansion" argument was made about abortion and availability of the morning after pill.

Here is just one example of why I am against this bill.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/17/canada-nonterminal-maid-assisted-death

That box is already open and clinicians already make those decisions. In my experience they make them with love and the best intentions but they shouldn't be making them at all.

Yeah, but once it’s passed there will be people who start calling for it to be available to people with non-terminal conditions. It’s only a matter of time.

It's an amazing step forward, having worked in health care for years I've seen intolerable suffering. I truly hope a law which allows people to die is created in the very near future, none of us know even we might want to implement it unless you're in that position and it's beyond belief that someone can take your right to die peacefully away from you.

People suffering from depression (which I have experienced) are not in the scope of this Bill.

Why would it not apply to people with dementia? At the point of diagnosis the person could make the decision for the future while they still had capacity

Its wonderful news and a step forward in compassion. My DH is likely to die within a couple of years so knowing this option will be available if his approaching death is painful and traumatic is a huge weight off our minds.

I am so pleased this has passed the first hurdle but in practice it will be useful only to a few people. My Nana had vascular dementia after a big stroke, she got treatment that kept her alive for months and months which was an absolute travesty. Her son, my uncle insisted they kept treating her and the hospital and me were powerless to overrule him as he was next of kin. I and they would have had to take him to court as he rejected simple medical advice. She died wretched and stripped of all her dignity. What my uncle did was pure wickedness and there are no rules to stop that. This law wouldn't have helped her. But my Mum died in her 50's of cancer, she was a nurse, she knew what was coming. Luckily because she had so little kidney function it all happened quickly at the very end with morphine, but my Mum also told me if it got too much for me to watch, to end it for her. Her theory was she was going to die anyway so I should save myself the ordeal. I would have done it, she knew I wouldn't let her suffer and that's why she asked me. My dear friend's Father in Holland had a similarly awful diagnosis and decided to end his life. He spoke with his GP, and then another Dr came who he or the family had not met before and had the discussion and three weeks later he ended his life, in his own bed, with his wife and his daughter. It was a dignified and quiet, controlled descent. He made that decision it was the right one as he just couldn't bear the idea of how this would end otherwise. My Mum, begged me to end it if it went on too long... That was the big fear for her, things she'd seen as a district nurse over so many years made her tell me that because she'd seen people go on for days, in protracted suffering and traumatising those who'd loved and cared for them. My friend's father wasn't scared at all, he had the best three weeks of his illness knowing there was a way out. He felt that after everything, he was the master of his own destiny. The Netherlands have got it right.

That would go against what the current bill is proposing.

I wouldn’t agree with it being extended to the cases you’ve linked to either, but that’s a battle to have IF it is ever proposed.

I am relieved this has passed. People should have the choice - but I hope it doesn’t end up being seen as an alternative to good palliative care. I don’t think that’s the intent, though.

Because the bill that has been passed only covers people with Terminal illness who are going to die within 6 months anyway.

You can be diagnosed with dementia but not likely to die from it in 6 months.