Assisted Dying

[Nordione1]

I dont know what section to put this in. Im more upset about the vote for it than I thought I'd be. I feel like we have crossed a rubicon somehow.

It doesn't matter how tightly it is drafted. It wouldn't matter if they called it the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) and Nobody Else At All, Ever Bill. Once it becomes law it can be challenged on human rights grounds, all the way to ECtHR if necessary and if the claim was successful then yes, it would have to go back to parliament to be amended.

The will is there among supporters of the bill and all the human rights arguments have been handily laid out for them in Canada. Why wouldn't they do this?

But I see you wouldn't be opposed to this anyway so you'll probably be chipping in for the crowdfunder. Fair enough, we're all entitled to fight for what we believe is right.

But you said you were trying to understand why a lot of disabled people are so concerned when the bill is so tightly focused on end of life.

This is why.

And what if you’re vulnerable or feel coerced?

WTF

You are surely not suggesting that those on favour of AD are Satanists?

If you are you need to get spiritual guidance because you are in dangerous territory mentally.

If not you need to grow the fuck up. This is not a 6th Form debate.

You can explain that to the doctors and they would refuse to allow you to do it.

Uou really are not getting it. That post uou quoted understood. No one is saying you can't havd a view but admit first that's why your view is the way it is because then that's being honest

You're right, I don't get it really. Not unless you're expecting everyone who contributes to any debate to express the nuance of their philosophical beliefs before they give an opinion.

Again, you're not getting it.in Order to change the actual bill, they would have to go back to Parliament and right now. There is no appetite for that. I mean, this is very strict, as it is six months with terminal illness.That's pretty strict.
So let's stick with what we have now. Personally, I think it's wrong that people are thinking like that because at the end of the day nobody has been forced to do this, it is a choice

I do on this. Yes, because we are giving you the evidence as to what this bills going to be and people are literally batting it away coming up with some hyperbolic of what could happen and then say they wouldn't agree with this. They wouldn't agree with that if that's the case fair.Enough, but some people just wouldn't agree with the bill.Full stop.
Partly because of their religion, which is why i'm saying it is disingenuous to come into an argument without laying that out.
There is absolutely nothing that has shaped my viewpoint to agree with this. Apart from I believe that as a human being, we have a right, choose when we want to live or die and I see right now, the inequality of if I had money, I could go to Switzerland I am poor. Which means that I won't be able to, so we are actually legalizing it because we re allowing rich people to f* off the switzerland

🙄

What's the problem here remember you r gonna field in 6 months anyway so what's the problem. Remember these are people dying already so again what the deal with folks thinking they gonna be pushed to die one way or another you will still die

This decision has to be agreed by 2 doctors and a high court judge. This is in place so people can not be coerced. If you're vulnerable enough not to have mental capacity then it wouldn't be an option in the first place.

@BMW6 it's ridiculous to suggest that everyone who has questions about this bill is religious as if that was a homogeneous group.
Satanists consider themselves religious- do we consider them?

It's ridiculous and it's another way to try to close down argument as if religion itself was the sole reason people would find problems with this legislation. It makes anyone who even mildly believes in any deity pause before commenting with an opinion. Find arguments that make sense instead of looking for excuses.

I volunteer with adults with learning difficulties. They have capacity.
It would be very very easy for me not only to convince them that assisted dying is a good idea, but make them believe it's true.
People can absolutely be coerced.

Have they all been diagnosed with terminal conditions where they have been given less than 6 months to live as well?

I can't think of a worse death than fighting to breathe , basically suffocating to death . Or being locked in to a body and not being able to voice if I was in pain or had cramp or an itch that needed scratching . I think the choice should be there .

Also @BMW6 this is the second time someone has tried to close down my opinions by telling me it's childish or 6th form.
Children and "6th formers" ask some very obvious and direct questions which adults like to ignore or dismiss with sophistry. But these are the real questions and they won't go away.

Nobody said that what has been said the is the disingenuous of certain mps for not admitting the reason why they voted against it was because of their religion.Of course, people can have issues with the way the bill is worded, which is why it's going to take another two or three years, to be sorted than to come back and voted again.
However, what I am saying is there are many people arguing in bad faith.They would certainly not even agree with it at all because of their religion so it doesn't matter how the bill is worded.They won't like it

Sorry but that is a bit naive.

I'm a social worker for people with learning disabilities.
You do not understand how the process works. People with learning disabilities will not be deemed as having enough capacity around assisted dying. No judge in the land would agree to this...ever. It's hard enough getting restrictive practices in place such as locking their front door for their own safety with a COPDOL in place. I can absolutely guarantee you no person with LD will get any high court judge to agree to this.

Also capacity can differ between situations. You could have capacity for one thing, eg consenting to a contraceptive implant and not for another, eg whether to end your life. If you reckon you could easily persuade these people that they should take their own life and for them to think it’s a good idea then I doubt they would be seen as having capacity in the context of assisted dying. Obviously the fact that they don’t have a terminal illness is the other spanner in the works.

You are forgetting, you have to have 6 months to live. You're gonna die anyway. This is not about people who will live. This is about people who are gonna die. Going to take one choice or another, either where you're going to die

@Littlemissgobby since everyone n this country has been exposed to religion since they were a child, maybe atheists should be the ones to declare ? They are the people who really have made up their minds.

Which, in my opinion, is f sad, and I think it really is because at the end of the day, why should they have to suffer just like anybody?Nobody should have to suffer

No, I didn't hear the debate yesterday. These cases are just so horrendous. I'm now 50/50 split. I honestly couldn't call it.

What!!! Seriously? Are these less valid?