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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Intimacy or controlling behaviour?

119 replies

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 13:26

DH thinks physical intimacy equates to love. I see it as an element of a loving relationship, he thinks he’s entitled to it when he wants it, wants me to walk around naked when we’re upstairs because he says it’s what loving couples do, and expects to have access to my body throughout the night eg to ‘hold me’ by his hands on boobs/privates and doesn’t like me moving his hands and showing I have a choice in this, or just so I can sleep. He says he’s not being controlled by me telling him where he can put his hands. Am I wrong now seeing I have a choice in this? I had zero awareness of this when we met 30 years ago, and I have been doing some work to try and understand the dynamics of our relationship which often feels unhealthy. He is very charming outside the home, very sociable and helpful. At home he can be very helpful on a practical level but blows hot and cold and gets angry when things don’t go his way, but if I point this out I become the problem for nagging or being on his back about stuff I’m not ok with. I’ve spent most of the 30 years feeling scared of him and becoming isolated from friends and family, but not recognising this. He generally storms off in a mood and goes out and makes subtle threats if I challenge him. He keeps getting angry (because I’m now seeing his behaviour as not ok and this means I’ve changed eg I’m challenging him) and this reality is killing the relationship especially the physical side, which is creating a cycle because he’s getting more angry about not getting his own way and I’m asking him to understand why him being angry when things don’t go his way and feeling entitled to my body is the problem for me.

OP posts:
crochetandshit · 30/11/2024 09:50

Sparklfairy · 29/11/2024 14:08

He says he’s not being controlled by me telling him where he can put his hands.

This is really bad. Like REALLY bad. Your body autonomy trumps everything. I'd say 'does he not see the hypocrisy in what he's saying - refusing to 'be controlled' yet controlling you' but it completely minimises the seriousness of this.

Take what he said in any other context. What if you said to someone, 'I'm going to stab you, and you're not going to control me by taking my knife away, because I want to stab you and that's that.' Does that person then lose all right to object to being stabbed? Do they have to allow themselves to be stabbed because you said so and you don't want to be 'controlled'? Would the police shrug off a murder charge?

Fucking ludicrous.

This part made me gasp out loud.
He has learned some therapy speak and is weaponising it against you.

I would actually advise you to challenge him as little as possible while you make arrangements to leave as soon as humanly possible.
I really think he will escalate massively.
Stay safe OP.

Fenellapitstop · 30/11/2024 10:06

Please call women's aid and start getting some support.

Have a look at the brightsky app, download it and keep a diary of what is happening and how you feel. Do not tell your husband what you are doing.

Please consider if you can keeping some things at your work like birth certificates, passports and bank account details just in case

Igmum · 30/11/2024 10:56

So sorry you are going through this OP. To spend 30 years in fear is terrible. Well done for labelling his behaviour. Please leave him if you can Flowers

Badburyrings · 30/11/2024 11:00

Deadbeatex · 29/11/2024 14:55

I assume your previous experience of DV was over 30yrs ago? The police back then didn't recognise DV as a crime but look at how many new laws there are now and specific charges around coercive control etc. They may not have helped you then but they WILL help you now. If you need to call them then ask for an officer trained in domestic abuse

This. Please OP do some research on coercive control. It’s now a crime. You absolutely can get help.

blueskyair · 30/11/2024 11:10

crochetandshit · 30/11/2024 09:50

This part made me gasp out loud.
He has learned some therapy speak and is weaponising it against you.

I would actually advise you to challenge him as little as possible while you make arrangements to leave as soon as humanly possible.
I really think he will escalate massively.
Stay safe OP.

Thank you, I think you’re right. The therapy speak is because I’ve needed therapy and I have tried endlessly to explain to him what I’ve learnt about his behaviour and how I need to feel safe. I feel so naive because I did this rather than just leaving, I just kept thinking he would get it eventually if I explained properly. I have also noticed him doing lots of writing on his phone when he’s angry with me. I wondered if he’s writing stuff about me ‘controlling him’ and it really frightens me that he will flip the whole thing on me if I leave, he’s so good at networking (like my ex) and in a very well respected job and knows a lot of people, the fear of what I’ll go through is overwhelming. Thanks everyone for replies, receiving these feels life changing xx

OP posts:
blueskyair · 30/11/2024 11:13

Fenellapitstop · 30/11/2024 10:06

Please call women's aid and start getting some support.

Have a look at the brightsky app, download it and keep a diary of what is happening and how you feel. Do not tell your husband what you are doing.

Please consider if you can keeping some things at your work like birth certificates, passports and bank account details just in case

Thank you, I will have a look at the app I hadn’t heard of it before xx

OP posts:
Fenellapitstop · 30/11/2024 11:20

So much has changed in how domestic abuse is dealt with by the police in the past 20 years. I know the idea of talking to anyone or leaving is scary. But start getting things in order while not saying anything. There is help out there now.

The other thing to look at having on your phone is hollieguard. It is possible to hide the apps if he's the type to go through your phone

Nanny0gg · 30/11/2024 11:23

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 14:48

His temper is awful and a few months ago he got so aggressive and was physically raging at me and (although has never physically hurt/hit me) and afterwards when things were calmer I said I would need to call the police if it happened again, he just laughed and said ‘they didn’t help you last time’ in reference to my previous relationship experiences of DV when police didn’t act because of ‘lack of physical injuries’. I feel like he’s got a very complex personality, like he’s seemingly friendly and helpful but only if you’re 100% compliant.

The laws have changed

Don't know if I've missed it, but do you own your home

What are your pension situations? (both of you)

You have options

blueskyair · 30/11/2024 11:48

Nanny0gg · 30/11/2024 11:23

The laws have changed

Don't know if I've missed it, but do you own your home

What are your pension situations? (both of you)

You have options

The house and bank account are in joint names. I paid a large deposit for the house originally after he couldn’t provide his share at the last minute saying because of problems with his ex. This has only just occurred to me recently how off this was. He has a good pension, I don’t, although until recently I have always worked, mostly full time, and am going back to work soon. We both have the full state pension due when we retire. He’s always ploughed everything into his private pension saying it’s for us. He’s 12 years older.

OP posts:
blueskyair · 30/11/2024 11:55

Fenellapitstop · 30/11/2024 11:20

So much has changed in how domestic abuse is dealt with by the police in the past 20 years. I know the idea of talking to anyone or leaving is scary. But start getting things in order while not saying anything. There is help out there now.

The other thing to look at having on your phone is hollieguard. It is possible to hide the apps if he's the type to go through your phone

Thank you, I will look at this too. I changed my phone PIN a couple of years ago because he had started taking my phone and even ‘helping me look for it’ when I noticed it missing. I still live in fear that he will work out the new PIN. I use the finger print too. Reading all your replies has made me realise how bad this is. I can’t reason with him and eventually will need to leave without telling him xx

OP posts:
CharlotteCollinsneeLucas · 30/11/2024 12:12

blueskyair · 30/11/2024 11:48

The house and bank account are in joint names. I paid a large deposit for the house originally after he couldn’t provide his share at the last minute saying because of problems with his ex. This has only just occurred to me recently how off this was. He has a good pension, I don’t, although until recently I have always worked, mostly full time, and am going back to work soon. We both have the full state pension due when we retire. He’s always ploughed everything into his private pension saying it’s for us. He’s 12 years older.

You are entitled to half his pension as well as your half of the house and bank account. Get a good solicitor who will fight for you, when you're ready.

As for him and his networking, those who believe him you can walk away from. Those who are there for you are the people you choose to keep in your life. Honestly, if you leave him, you'll have so much agency: who you choose to spend time with, when you go to sleep, what you wear - you won't know what to do with yourself, but it'll be a good feeling.

BilboBlaggin · 30/11/2024 12:13

If you first met 30 years ago then you're obviously not youngsters. Please don't live the remainder of your life with this horrible, abusive man.

You say it's hard to talk about, and he has caused issues in your relationships, distancing you from loved ones. I would encourage you to be brave and reach out to those loved ones. Explain in confidence that you've finally found the strength to do something about your life and are planning to leave this man. They'll probably be more supportive than you could ever imagine.

I wish you well in the next step of your journey OP and hope you succeed in leaving. A much better life awaits you.

blueskyair · 01/12/2024 11:57

Thank you for all the replies. I really need these as reminders to guide me going forwards. It’s been more helpful sharing on here than I could have imagined. I’m grateful for this community xx

OP posts:
ByBusyTiger · 01/12/2024 12:53

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 14:48

His temper is awful and a few months ago he got so aggressive and was physically raging at me and (although has never physically hurt/hit me) and afterwards when things were calmer I said I would need to call the police if it happened again, he just laughed and said ‘they didn’t help you last time’ in reference to my previous relationship experiences of DV when police didn’t act because of ‘lack of physical injuries’. I feel like he’s got a very complex personality, like he’s seemingly friendly and helpful but only if you’re 100% compliant.

Typical abuser. I’m with one, they don’t change.

You’ll get a completely different man if you comply with what he wants but as soon as you exert independence (as you’re starting to do) watch him change.

Because you want your control back, he’ll get nastier. Look up NPD, look up the dark triad (these men are almost always on it) so you know what you’re dealing with.

That’s a long time to be brainwashed into a trauma bond, you need to know why you got here.

ByBusyTiger · 01/12/2024 13:03

blueskyair · 30/11/2024 11:55

Thank you, I will look at this too. I changed my phone PIN a couple of years ago because he had started taking my phone and even ‘helping me look for it’ when I noticed it missing. I still live in fear that he will work out the new PIN. I use the finger print too. Reading all your replies has made me realise how bad this is. I can’t reason with him and eventually will need to leave without telling him xx

What if I told you some of these npd men will literally hide your things so they can be the hero and find it for you or they’ll just enjoy watching you look for it? It throws you off if someone keeps moving your things.

The man will already have your pin, believe me. Change it frequently. You have to know how your enemy works in this case, read and keep reading.

They’re warped beyond belief. They will do the weirdest things to feel in control. You’re only just discovering their mind games, it’s going to get enlightening from here.

ByBusyTiger · 01/12/2024 13:18

The abuse and control will ramp up as you start seeing him with clarity. I cannot stress this enough.

Play nice, pretend all is well and get out quietly. Fighting with a narcissist is pointless, asking a narcissist to know how to love is pointless. If you have the resources, find a way out.

ByBusyTiger · 01/12/2024 13:25

blueskyair · 29/11/2024 20:35

Thank you all for all the replies, it really has shocked me to read how strongly people feel over something that has felt so overwhelmingly confusing, and when I’ve tried to discuss it I’ve always been the problem. A big part of the confusion is his ability to be so nice in between issues. I have adult children and grandchildren (from previous marriage) and he has caused chaos in those relationships, which I couldn’t see at the time. I’ve worked really hard on being in those relationships recently and holding boundaries regarding them, and he’s getting agitated about this and complains about the time I spend with them, which flips the narrative again and makes me feel like the problem. I’m trying to overcome the control I’ve been under so he will notice I’ve changed towards him. Our assets/bank etc are all joint. I’m planning on going back to work soon (I’ve worked most of my life until recently).

Intermittent reinforcement of the trauma bond he has created for you. He is nice to you to confuse you and keep you thinking he just has faults. The nasty side is the real person.

They’re incredible when they’re not being monsters, aren’t they? 😆

Cariadm · 01/12/2024 15:19

blueskyair · 01/12/2024 11:57

Thank you for all the replies. I really need these as reminders to guide me going forwards. It’s been more helpful sharing on here than I could have imagined. I’m grateful for this community xx

You're very welcome and good luck for the future...be brave! xx

Confusedmeanderings · 01/12/2024 15:40

OP I can't add to the excellent advice you have received on this thread, but would like to tell you that I am thinking of you and really hope that you can break free.

blueskyair · 02/12/2024 01:14

ByBusyTiger · 01/12/2024 12:53

Typical abuser. I’m with one, they don’t change.

You’ll get a completely different man if you comply with what he wants but as soon as you exert independence (as you’re starting to do) watch him change.

Because you want your control back, he’ll get nastier. Look up NPD, look up the dark triad (these men are almost always on it) so you know what you’re dealing with.

That’s a long time to be brainwashed into a trauma bond, you need to know why you got here.

Thank you, I agree. He’s so different if I say yes to everything, it extends to family members, if I ‘behave properly’ he’s not only ‘nice’ to me but to the rest of the family, and when I don’t comply he’s criticising and angry about/to everyone. I agree about the NPD, he changes in the blink of an eye at the slightest thing, the rage comes from nowhere. I’m sorry you are in a similar situation xx

OP posts:
CharlotteCollinsneeLucas · 03/12/2024 07:43

Do get back to Women's Aid about getting a support worker. It's really useful whether you want to maker plans, or talk about problems to overcome before you can think of making plans, or just feel there is someone around who knows and is on your side.

blueskyair · 03/12/2024 12:22

CharlotteCollinsneeLucas · 03/12/2024 07:43

Do get back to Women's Aid about getting a support worker. It's really useful whether you want to maker plans, or talk about problems to overcome before you can think of making plans, or just feel there is someone around who knows and is on your side.

Thank you, this is very helpful to know as I keep putting it off in fear of having to suddenly make a decision, but looking at it like this feels more manageable, thank you xx

OP posts:
lifeisforlaying · 03/12/2024 12:49

I'm wondering how he says it? For example is it just as you've described that he's basically demanding to have access to your body regardless of your feelings or if he's just saying he'd like to do these things? I suspect it's the former in which case that's not acceptable, it's your body not his regardless of your relationship or how long you've been together. I would stand firm and put in boundaries, if he can't respect them, then I'd be thinking about leaving.

blueskyair · 03/12/2024 14:29

lifeisforlaying · 03/12/2024 12:49

I'm wondering how he says it? For example is it just as you've described that he's basically demanding to have access to your body regardless of your feelings or if he's just saying he'd like to do these things? I suspect it's the former in which case that's not acceptable, it's your body not his regardless of your relationship or how long you've been together. I would stand firm and put in boundaries, if he can't respect them, then I'd be thinking about leaving.

Thank you. He says he’s disappointed in me as he believes these things represent a loving relationship, and because I used to ‘provide’ these things he feels very angry because I’ve changed things by putting the boundaries in place. It’s difficult because I experienced DV in childhood and my previous marriage, so started this relationship with no sense of agency, and I’m just starting to become aware of how this affected me and I don’t want to live like that anymore. He says all he wants is a loving relationship which he thinks I’m denying him by having these boundaries. He’s demanding to know when this situation will ‘return to normal’ as he says he feels disappointed and hurt not to have things as they were. It does confuse me when he says it like this, because I feel I’m failing. From my point of view, he doesn’t grasp anything that I’m saying about him not having a right to my body, which just makes it worse for me. I’ve tried to explain the big picture to him, that his temper and generally aggressive responses to anything that doesn’t go his way at home is at the root of all this, the intimacy thing (to me) is an outcome of the whole situation.

OP posts:
Giggorata · 03/12/2024 14:45

Having read this, I am pleased for you that you are in contact with Women's Aid and are to have a support worker.
You musn't let him know that she is anything more than a friend.

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