Am I or is school BU?

[SchoolProblemHelp]

Name changed for this as this situation is probably very recognisable to those who know me.

Having some issues with DD’s school at the moment and before I make a formal complaint want to know if I’m being an overprotective mum or if school is handling this wrong.

DD has Autism and Tourette’s Syndrome. Had lots of support in mainstream primary school, teacher’s aide, maths intervention as she is very behind in this, access to quiet area when overwhelmed, able to take time away when suffering tic attacks etc. All of this was provided at school monitoring level and so she has no EHCP in place and we are told she would not meet criteria for one as she was coping just fine with this support.

Went to high school this year and all of this support was withdrawn. New school say it was never a formal plan so no duty to provide it. Still claim she won’t meet EHCP level yet also don’t agree she needs school monitoring support she previously had.

Couple of recent incidents involve:

• Being given detention for not finishing Maths work despite asking and not receiving help (we are aware she is 12 months behind in Maths and in a mixed ability class so she found this above her level).
• Being given detention for walking out of lesson when suffering a tic attack as another child was laughing and imitating her tics back to her.
• Being made to stand up in class and read aloud and told off for ‘being silly’ when she starting ticking due to nerves by a teacher who apparently had not been informed she has Tourette’s.
• Being given behaviour points for ‘chewing gum’ despite it being known by the SEN team that one of her common tics is rolling her jaw as though she is chewing.
• Being given behaviour points for ‘throwing’ a pencil that flew out of her hand when her arm ticked. And when I raised this with the school being told it is her responsibility to inform the teacher at the time that this was in fact a tic, despite this meaning having to disclose her medical history in front of the whole class including children who bully her for this.

The cumulation of the above now means she’s been put on report and has to approach each teacher in very lesson to ask them to write on her report and take it to the head of year at the end of the day. Something she is very anxious about doing as her Autism means she struggles to approach people.

Am I expecting too much of a mainstream school or should school be resolving these issues and stop punishing a child for their disability. If I could get her an EHCP and move her I would in a heartbeat but to get an EHCP you have to show that the school intervention isn’t enough and it was, in primary, but now school won’t put the support in place.

am kind of 50:50 on this.
I think you need to adjust your expectations a little. Secondary schools are very different to primary school.Each teacher depending on subject may teach as many as 500 or 600 kids over the course of a fortnight. If say nearly 20% have an SEN, they can't have an intimate knowledge of each child's condition and needs so your child does need to speak up.Also I think your child is milking the situation a bit, I mean 'I threw a pencil because my hand slipped.' Come on! I didn't attempt my maths because it was too hard. She should have had a go!

As I have informed each teacher when issues present most of them have been mortified and apologised. Except the one that said it was her responsibility to tell them it was a tic as how can they tell the difference.

That is a point, fair maybe not. The simple solution is for your DD to have a pass she can show to her teacher.

Is she still on report? Tell her to put the report on the teacher's desk at the start of the lesson. You might want to add a note saying she has autism and struggles to communicate.

As a teacher it's actually easier to do this than have students come up after the lesson. I can fill it in while the class are doing some work.

But frankly the school are talking a load of crap, everyone in the school has a duty of care and everyone should be following disability discrimination information.

Some great advice above but just wanted to say this is horrific of the school.

Legal issues aside, common humanity should mean all children are treated with compassion and respect.
I'm so sorry you and your family are having to go through this.

You could ask for a SAR to fing out how the school is managing the information internally?

Request an EHCNA yourself. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use. The only legal test you need to show at this point is DD a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need special educational provision to be made via an EHCP. She meets that test. You do not need to show the school has spent £6k, DD is 2+ years behind…

Request a meeting with the SENCO. Formally complain to the school. Under the Children and Families Act 2014 they must make their best endeavours to meet DD’s SEN. They must also make reasonable adjustments under the Equality Act 2010 (it is the EA not the DDA now). They must not punish DD for the tics. That is discrimination.

The primary is also at fault for not requesting an EHCNA previously. They should have. Sadly it isn’t uncommon for DC to be well supported at primary with support (e.g. a TA) that cannot be provided at a SEN support level in a secondary school and then transition to secondary be difficult when that support isn’t/can’t be provided.

So sorry you and your DD are going through this @SchoolProblemHelp. Yes of course YADNBU. You have some great advice here and definitely get an EHCP. I got one for my daughter. It's emotional as a parent to do it but definitely worthwhile. SENDIASS also offer good support. Good luck

@Xmasday2024 Do you know what Tourette’s syndrome is? She didn’t throw a pencil because her hand slipped. She has a regular tic where her arm goes in the air and she bounces her arm behind her head a couple of times. She let go off the pencil during this tic. She absolutely is not milking her Tourette’s!

God, this is atrocious, OP. I'm sorry your poor DD has experienced all of this, and that you'll have to fight really hard on her behalf to get some support for her.

An EHCP should have been applied for when your DD was in primary school. The school would have known that without it, the highschool were extremely unlikely to provide the same - or any - level of support for your DD. It is not the school's place to decide she doesn't meet the threshold, although it obviously helps to have them onside during the EHCP process. As others have said, you can apply, and I would start that ball rolling ASAP. (FWIW, although my DS's school did support the EHCP application, they tried to push back extremely hard on the level of support the LA identified was necessary, and it still hasn't been put in place.)

Put absolutely everything in writing. Don't expect meetings suggested by the school to be minuted or for them to comply with any actions agreed in the meeting. Create meeting minutes yourself, circulate them ASAP and say any feedback/amendments are due within a week, otherwise they will stand as an accurate reflection of what was discussed/agreed. Likewise, take notes of every telephone call and email them back to the relevant party as a record of the conversation.

Schools shouldn't be able to get away with pushing out the kids they decide, for whatever reason, aren't suitable. But life can be very hard if you're not academically gifted/don't respond well to pressure and you're in the type of school that pushes out what they consider to be academically underachieving children. Whilst it is hard leaving friends, at this early stage of highschool, it may be worth seeing if other schools have space and talking with your DD about whether she'd be happy to at least visit them to see what they were like.

This. Don't wait for school to decide if or accept their reluctance to apply. Longer term this may not be the best fit school for her but you need to at least get an acceptance of her need for support and tolerance.

@Xmasday2024 Your comment is exactly why I say tourettes is not understood by many people. "My hand slipped and I threw a pencil" is so insulting and is the attitude that causes anxiety in people with the condition. A tic isn't a controlled action and it can be highly distressing.

Not only that, but when children try to suppress it, it takes up all of their focus and attention. Therefore, completing other tasks like school work is 10x harder and they need support. You should learn about it if you're going to comment.

I had similar with my child. On SEN support but not actually getting support. I suggest the following:

1. Put in a Subject Access Request. That will give you all the incidents recorded, attendance figures, emails between staff about your daughter, SEN conversations, etc.

1. Apply for an EHC Needs Assessment, using the information above to show that the school are not meeting your daughter's needs.

1. Point out that although the SEN Code of Practice recommends Assess, Plan, Do, Review, the fact that the school haven't done this shouldn't delay your DD getting the provision she needs.

“Milking the situation.” You think she’s milking the systematic discrimination and bullying?

I hope you don’t work anywhere near children with disabilities. Shame on you!

Sorry, I've not read the whole thread. I'm a secondary teacher and a mum - I'd be so upset if my dd was treated like this.

Can they at least give her a time out card for when she needs to leave the room to tic? Can you write a note in dd's planner that says something like "DDs mum here. Dd has Tourette's and she had no control over what just happened. I've told her to show this note when she has been reprimanded for something outside of her control due to her disability. Her autism means she doesn't have the confidence to speak to you directly and does not like the attention in front of others. Any issues please contact me or Mrs X the senco."

I didn't attempt my maths because it was too hard. She should have had a go!

Have you any idea how hard it is to “have a go” when you know you’re behind your peers, you’re feeling anxious because you don’t have full control of your body and your needs aren’t being met in school. Learning is much easier if the work you’re doing stretches something you already know, it’s nearly impossible if you have no existing frame of reference.

Can you contact the SENCO about this? Although given the way your daughter is being discriminated against I’m not sure the SENCO is even doing their job. You shouldn’t need an EHCP for reasonable adjustments to be made and your daughter being put under SEN. This should be in place whilst an EHCP application is pending anyway.

Hi. I have two children with echp and 1:1 adult assistance for high school and still encounter problems.
My experience is that they won't let kids leave classroom unless there is an adult to go with them as they don't want them wandering around school. My sons TA has had to chase other kids around the school as there isn't enough support staff (badly paid, no hol pay etc but that's another story)
Most teachers don't read about sen of the kids and they can have 10 plus different teachers. One of my kids ended up taking credit card size bits of cards with his sen details on them as he got sick of explaining and popped them on teachers desk as he went into the room

SchoolProblemHelp

From what you have posted your initial problem is the SEN department of the school as they are trying to push blame on the teachers.

My dd is also autistic and has seizures that are very similar to tourettes tics.

Her school were also very slow to provide help, but I went in, fought her case and now they can't seem to do enough for her.

She doesn't have a 1:1 but the school have issued her with a card she just has to show and then she can leave immediatly and go to the support for learning lounge, she is on a very reduced timetable, she's allowed to wear headphones or earplugs, she can wear what she wants to school, any incidents of bullying due to her disability are dealt with swiftly, and she has a support teacher who checks in with her weekly to discuss anything and make adjustments as needed.

The school should be making reasonable adjustments to allow your dd the same access to education that everyone else has.

I would (and did) spend the weekend going through the school handbook and policies, and printing off the laws surrounding disabilities, and go for a meeting next week armed with all the ways they are failing your dd and why its illegal.

I have attached (redacted to remove names) emails from the SENCO where I was told my child can only have support in lesson if an EHCP child is absent. And from the Maths teacher who minimised the detention as a friendly supportive session, but it’s still compulsory and still means she misses her lunch break and also said that she expects 100% on the maths homework despite knowing my child is very behind in this subject.

I am in regular contact with the SEN team and individually contact her teachers as problems occur. It isn’t like they don’t know this is happening. They just keep excusing it.

This is also her (again redacted to remove names) learning plan.

She already has a pass to leave the class when needed but they no longer issue physical passes and it’s virtual and as the teachers don’t read the plan they deny her using the passes.

Absolutely put in a complaint. At the very least all her teachers should be aware of her conditions and how they present in class.

Basic compassion would suggest your daughter should be able to leave class while ticking.

Their behaviour is appalling. I hope she’s not being too upset by it x

Be careful with SENDIASS. Some are good but far too many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies.

Many secondary schools are unable to provide TA support in lessons without an EHCP. That will be why support in lessons is only possible if a pupil with an EHCP is absent. This is why you need to request an EHCNA.

Interventions can happen during the day. Saying they can't because pupils miss lessons is trying to fob you off. However, again, the school may not have to staff to provide interventions without an EHCP.

Ask the school to introduce DD to other pupils who go to the snack shack daily.

Definitely complain to the head a board of governors. Under the DDA and the equality act she has a disability that requires reasonable adjustments and adaptations. I don't think she needs an EHCP, what she requires is understanding and strategies, which costs very little.

I don't think she needs an EHCP, what she requires is understanding and strategies

OP’s DD needs both. The school needs to be making reasonable adjustments and not discriminating against DD. However, she will not get all the special educational provision she requires at a SEN support level.

I am absolutely horrified by the lack of communication around your DD's SEN to her teachers, who can be made to read her IEP. The register at my school is set up so that students have flags and sticky notes next to their name so teachers can see whether a child has a pass to leave the lesson or a diagnosis or autism without having to open up any learning plan. This means that supply teachers can also see the info as they are taking the register. Is there anything like this at the school that her details can be added to?

The lack of intervention for maths unless an EHCP student is away is unfortunately not surprising due to the severe funding cuts in school. A lot of secondaries now only have TAs that are funded by EHCPs and no 'spares' who could do interventions with other students.

If you want extra support for her in maths, the opportunity here appears to be in the lunchtimes where teachers give up their time to support students with their homework. It might be an idea if she could go to these sessions? (Rebranded as maths support rather than homework detention?). I don't know Sparx but it appears it is supposed to present students with work at their level so the homework should be appropriate for her even if she is behind?

Definitely send an email to the school with basic info about her needs and ask it be forwarded to all her teachers immediately and complain about the lack of action. No EHCP doesn't mean no support, that's ridiculous.

This - plus write to your MP and LEA. Shocking treatment!