Did anybody see the Panaroma about binge drinking last night?

[Orangelight23]

Real eye opener for me. Women in their 30s being diagnosed with liver disease. I must admit I have myself been drawn into wine culture and drinking wine to relax.

It's made me have a real think about my alcohol intake to be honest.

I think we are in danger is saying moderate drinkers who have a minor health impact during their lives should feel guilty because alcoholism exists. It's like saying people who occasionally enjoy chips should feel guilty as there are morbidly obese people. I think we have to draw lines between the serious condition of alcoholism and the moderate drinking western socities have enjoyed since time immemorial.

We don't go round moralizing people for flying too much because of the dose of cosmic radiation increasing cancer risk or advising people to have one sexual partner in life to avoid the HPV virus or other STDs so why start with alcohol?.it's as if we are trying to drive ourselves to be the perfect species and purtinitanically coercing people to achieve that goal.

Those societies where alcohol is forbidden in a holistic sense may not be more happier or fulfilled societies so we need to be careful of judgment.

Statistics are sobering. Up to 17% of children in the UK have features of foetal alcohol syndrome. I always thought FAS is really what's behind the increase in ADHD etc rates.

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/policybristol/policy-briefings/fasd-uk-prevalence/

The I’m alright jack attitude of drinkers that have been lucky enough to so far come out unscathed by alcohol is so irritating, and you may indeed stay unscathed, but many who genuinely were not looked at as problem drinkers do suddenly get caught out with a rainbow of ill health outcomes and NO they were not always being secretive about how much they drank.

^^This. I'm saddened by all the comments from people about how much they drink and calling people warning about the negative effects pearl clutchers etc. My ex partner drank heavily through his 20s and 30s with seemingly no effects - by his 40's he was an alcoholic with no job and a wrecked body, and by 50 he was dead. That's the reality that you'll be lucky if it doesn't happen, not unlucky if it does.

There is plenty of information for pregnant women and I think the vast majority of women do stop drinking during prehanacy. Should women as the bearers of children stop drinking at all so there is no risk to their children. I think the feral alcohol syndrome argument can be used to unfairly guilt women out of drinking entirely and we may start to view drinking as a male pleasure (presumably with the women withdrawing to a drawing room).

The women I know have all stopped drinking at the first sign of preganacy.

I suppose the problem is that we don't know how much damage is done from alcohol in the weeks before you know you're pregnant.

J

Around 50 % of pregnancies are unintended. The levels of alcohol consumption which is normalized in pur society is affecting unborn infants to pretend otherwise is naive at best.

Alcohol needs to be reclassified as a class A drug.

Alcohol increases the risk of many cancers including bowel cancer - even at 'social drinking' levels. I suspect most people don't realise drinking increases their cancer risk. There's not yet any evidence that UPF causes cancer.

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/alcohol-and-cancer/how-does-alcohol-cause-cancer

Is resolution therefore for young women not to drink? Should it be society problematic for a woman to be in a pub and we should all ensure there is no alcohol in their glasses.

The risk of downs syndrome increases rapidly with maternal age so is it best to have women being abstinent and having children at a young age? This may be a biological/health ideal but doesn't it show that there is something fundamentally illiberal about this situation from a female perspective?

Using health a the ultimate driver of human existence can lead to Handmaids Take like scwnarios.

To be clear no one should be drinking daily or even perhaps 2 or 3 times weekly. There is loads of evidence it is deliterious not just for individual health but for society as a whole, I think of it as analogous to tobbaco in the '50's and '60s. I think we need a public health campaign and for alcohol to be taxed much more punitively. The changes in licensing laws in the 00,'s were a public health disaster. This is not about controlling women.

This. Half of this discussion is based on a massive societal denial of the problem (rates of FASD are three times higher than autism) and I say it as someone with no family history of alcohol abuse but who worked with those affected. Or their children.

'. I think the feral alcohol syndrome argument can be used to unfairly guilt women out of drinking entirely and we may start to view drinking as a male pleasure (presumably with the women withdrawing to a drawing room).'

I think societies attitude to alcohol in general needs a massive overhaul.

I also don't think it's just pregnant women who drink and do damage - I can't imagine it's particularly healthy for intoxicated men to be passing their sperm on either!

Fuck me we're descending into prohibition-time levels of piousness on this thread 😅

The thing is, that's never going to happen.

It's true that if alcohol was discovered today it would never be legalised but you can't really shut the drawbridge now. It's done. The only solution is to try and educate people as much as possible and minimise the impact alcohol has on our society.

I'm sure I'll be accused of being boring and pious and puritan though

Saw a woman I know yesterday who had given up drinking 3 months ago and she looked fabulous, slim with lovely glowing skin.
I do enjoy a couple of drinks most days and think it would be beneficial to give up or only occasionally have just a small glass of wine.
I recently went out and drank this, which I know is very bad for me:-
1 small beer
1 espresso martini
3 aperol spritz
3 glasses of red wine
2 baby guiness.
I was a bit tipsy by the end but not very drunk. I think I could give it up if I had someone to do it with, does anyone want to do this with me?

I think in years to come we will look back on how we consumed alcohol and the damage that it does. It's a carcinogen even at low levels . I am a doctor and understand exactly the risk I take when I drink alcohol. I have cut down massively to a couple of glasses a week. I am certain that I will continue to enjoy red wine for the rest of my life in small amounts. So many posters just don't want to hear or accept the facts. Here are some easy to read facts;
https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/alcohol-and-cancer/how-does-alcohol-cause-cancer

There are many risks that we all take each day and drinking alcohol is one of them. Small changes would help everyone - smaller wine glasses, distraction at the 6 pm weak spot until the urge to open that bottle passes.

I would love to say that I will give up with you but I think that's just unrealistic for me at the moment.

I will be cutting down and doing my best to stay below 14 units a week and no more than 6 units a day. I'm also going to be having regular few weeks off the booze completely.

There's a great Alcohol Support section on this very site! Hop on over!

And I quit drinking for a few years and my skin was amazing, so glowy, so if that's of interest to you... 😄

The thing is the normalisation of drinking in our culture is what makes it so hard to confront it. In a lot of circles not drinking socially is treated with suspicion or outright contempt.

And then the “little bit of what you fancy does you good” comments. It’s all about people giving themselves permission not to face up to it.

I was at a funeral recently of someone who had died in his early 50s of cancer (not clear whether drinking played a part but he drank heavily) and his best friend was chiding people at the wake for drinking soft drinks. It was in “good humour” but I remember thinking how difficult it is if you move in circles like this to avoid alcohol.

I’m in a work friendship group with people who I am fond of but they are basically functioning alcoholics. Every social event involves binge drinking and lots of “wine o’clock” humour and back slapping. It’s impossible to challenge this without coming across as uptight or alarmist and if you stick to soft drinks you are mercilessly teased. I don’t drink alcohol at all during the working week now, maybe a glass of wine at the weekend and when I go to a big social event so very little and the idea of having four wines on a Tuesday night repulses me so I have basically withdrawn from this group. It’s sad but I just can’t face it.

PPs are right that if alcohol were introduced now it would immediately be banned. But it’s so utterly endemic that it takes a real act of will to remove yourself from it.

I have been told that alcohol is more addictive and more health damaging than a lot of the illegal drugs but it is socially acceptable!

It's so easy for alcohol intake to slowly creep up. I found this happening the last couple of years. A couple of glasses of wine at the weekend increased to a couple of glasses most nights. There was always a good excuse - stressful day at work, wanting to relax after meetings at school (asn kids so lots of these) etc. I knew it wasn't a problem because I didn't drink every day. I was just fooling myself.

I have cut back massively this year. One bottle at weekends and very rarely anything else. But that's because I just don't buy it. If it was in the house I'd probably drink it.

I think the health risks of alcohol have been obvious for years so none of this should be a surprise to anyone. I drank more frequently at uni and in early 20s, but it was only socially, I've never really liked the taste of alcohol so I've had no desire to drink at home. I stopped drinking much when I spent most of my time having nights out with DH and didn't need that social crutch any more, and I've virtually given up since I had first DD 7 years ago. I think I've never fit into social groups with heavy drinking culture and been seen as a bit boring, and it's the boring ones who will end up healthier and living longer.

I watched the Panorama after seeing this thread. Also my partners ex is struggling with alcohol and in a very bad way.

What struck me about the documentary was how, when ecstasy came along and alcohol lost ground, the alcohol companies literally sat down and worked out how they could claw back market share. That's where 'wine o clock' pretty glasses and pink gin aimed at women came from.

It makes me so angry that actual people sit down and work out how to manipulate for money. Who here works in marketing? Should be ashamed.

My ex was a functioning alcoholic. It started off with a beer most days after work. Then he added on more beer and whisky. He would lie how much he'd drunk. Lots of different bottles of whisky and he'd insist any empty ones were really old. I'd hear him pulling the cork out to repeatedly top up but then later saying he'd only had one. As an estimate he was drinking 50+ units a week.

He was functional in terms of going to work and no one else knowing. But it affected his sleep, mood and eventually worsening dv. I've heard he has a lot of health issues now in his 40s.

That's how marketing works though - it's the same with fatty foods, or electronics, or video games.

Yes, it's immoral but it's what capitalism is all about - money.