Who was in the wrong - bakery or me?

[Doijb]

I take my kids to a bakery after swimming. Most of the time they choose sausage rolls or similar. There is a tiny table with two chairs. I plop one of my kids on my lap and we eat our treat. I prefer this as otherwise the flakes would go everywhere.

Anyway, after going every week to this place for a year one of the staff members tells me we’re not really a sit down food place. I inquire about the chairs and she said it’s more for people who wait.

I just found this odd. My kids are brilliantly behaved and I make sure not loud. My oldest will wipe down the table with a serviette.

Who is being weird?

I think it's blatantly obvious if there are only two chairs in a shop, they're for people waiting rather than for people to occupy to eat their food.

As PP have said, it's not a matter of right or wrong. This is their rule, and now someone has explained it you have a couple of choices: Stop going there in protest or take your food somewhere else to eat.

I can see why they wouldn't want people eating there. You said yourself that you like using the table because it saves you cleaning any crumbs at home. Well, the bakery doesn't want to clean the crumbs, either. But it was an honest mistake to make. Personally, if I were them I'd put chairs but not table, which would make it more obvious that it's a waiting area and not a place to sit and eat.

Why is anyone in the wrong, @Doijb ?

You used it, they have eventually pointed out that they are not an eat-in bakery (who knows, maybe a recent inspection) and asked you not to do so.

No one is wrong, and you know for future.

It's admittedly quite difficult to create much of an ambiance in a two cover restaurant.

This: for regular use 'as a seating area' they should be charging VAT on 'eating in' goods.

I can only imagine somebody has mentioned this to them, they could be in huge bother if HMRC turn up to inspect, see someone eating in and decide the bakery allows eating in and fine them vast sums, demanding back VAT to be paid - when they've not charge VAT on 'eating in' goods.

My favourite thing on mumsnet is people taking a completely understandable and mundane confusion like that experienced by OP and then acting like the reality of the situation was SO obvious and clear that the OP must be an irrepressible buffoon, thoughtless beyond belief, or even a vicious arsehole with evil intentions not to have IMMEDIATELY grasped the true position.

I think I need a diagram of the bakery

Weird and embarrassing that they didn't mention it earlier. I would have assumed that it was for customers to sit and eat too. Sounds like you had a nice routine going with the kids. I'd look for another place where you are made to feel welcome as a loyal customer.

This is exactly what they did - they told the OP that the table was for waiting only, not eating? I don't think anybody was being unreasonable.

No one's in the 'wrong', it'll be to do with eat in food being subject to VAT, and it not being 'allowed' on the premises on the basis they sell takeaway food only.
It's probably not something you'd be aware of if you were working in a bakery rather than an owner/proprietor and wouldn't see any harm in happening, and maybe now it's been brought to the staff's attention that it shouldn't be happening and so they've said something.

You were perfectly reasonable to do it as there's a table and chairs there, we've a bakery near us that has two tiny tables and 4 chairs where you can dine in, and the staff wouldn't have thought any more of it than you if they weren't aware of the VAT thing, now they obviously know and so they've told you that's not what it's for, but for waiting.

Not everything has to be a blame game with someone at fault or being weird or being awkward.

Exactly. Not weird to have chairs to wait. Weird to have a table in a food place but not for people to eat at.

Food premises have to have a different license for customers eating in.

So it is the rules to not allow customers to eat in.

Some of these replies. This thread is MN gold 😂

I'd be mortified that I'd never bothered to ask if it's ok to sit at the table all this time

Oh of course. Every time I walk into a cafe or takeaway I meekly prod someone on the shoulder and say 'please sir, is it okay if I sit at this receptacle with chairs around it in the customer area? I mean I assume that's what It's for but of course, it could be just there because It's an old heirloom from Aunty Mildred'

If I was them I would remove the table and put a sign up saying it’s for waiting customers only.

'Do not sit at this non-existent table unless you're waiting for food. I know looks can be deceiving but it is there, but you can't sit at it'.

Of course, most decent people will sacrifice comfort for someone more in need (disabilities etc.) but that doesn't mean we can never sit down ANYWHERE without skulking up and down the street first to make sure nobody with a walking stick/wheelchair/learning disability/wooden leg is hanging about.

*Function of a table??

Sitting on it

Job done*

We've found the solution! Take the chairs away, let people just sit on the table! Or does that invoke vat charges too?

So it’s a bakery shop, not a cafe? YABVU.*

Yes OP, you naughty, NAUGHTY girl for sitting at a table and chairs in the establishment you just purchased food from! How DARE you, you EVIL woman!

I too think the cafe were being weird for not saying anything the first or second time.

I would probably take my business elsewhere unless it was very convenient.

If the sausage rolls are kept warm, aren't they of the same VAT bracket as an eating in establishment anyway? I am sure someone said that on here some time ago but I am not familiar with it myself.

I reckon they've had a visit from an inspector who's noticed crumbs under the table and given them a finger-wagging.

this cafe isn't customer friendly. Table and chairs you can't eat at, no signs, how is this good for anybody with disabilities, hidden or otherwise? And what about ND people, I am NT and I would be confused by it. I wouldn't go back here op. It is fine that you cannot eat at the table. It isn't fine that they have no signs, and a seating area. Goodness knows how chaotic it may be in the back, if this is what is presented to the customers.

I agree with this. I'd be very embarrassed if I sat at a table that was free and was told I couldn't sit there! And I am also NT.

It's weird to have a table and chairs there is they aren't for eating at, surely just have chairs?!

It's weird that they have let you do this for a year and not mentioned it.

I feel like the poor OP has been set up to fail on this thread, tbh. She’s selfish and entitled if she doesn’t move for people with disabilities, but if she does move she’s a blatant rule breaker sitting at the table when she clearly knew better.

Not everything does have to be a big drama, but thankfully we have MN responses to make sure it is!

Exactly this!!

Thank you for having such a measured response.

Not everything has to be a drama.

The rules are that you cannot sit in and eat.
The person who works at the time that OP comes in may not have been aware of this but now that she is, she’s done her job by telling OP the rules.

It’s a non issue.
OP made an honest mistake and the worker told her the rules.
No harm done.

Really? Mortified? That's a low bar for mortification.

I get fed up with cafes that expect you to be telepathic. This isn't the usual example - I don't think the OP was remotely unreasonable - but the usual example is where they expect you to know if it's table or counter service.

PUT A SIGN UP!

"I prefer this as otherwise the flakes would go everywhere."
I am guessing the flakes still go everywhere so they want to also avoid clean up

Well exactly, but it's much more exciting for the OP to be painted as entitled or for the cafe staff to be weird for not saying something sooner, than the far more likely scenario that neither the staff nor the OP realised that it's not allowed, and the OP used the table in good faith and the staff let her not thinking there would be anything amiss with it and now they've been made aware and made OP aware that she can't any more.

This is an interesting post. Some posters clearly have difficulties with the norms of everyday life.

It also explains why there are so many CF threads.

This, she’s getting some weird replies.

I find it an odd way to treat customers who have been coming in for a year and doing the same thing. Yes we have a table and chairs for customers but for goodness' sake don't sit there. But now you've been told I'd probably just find somewhere else you can get a nice sausage roll and sit down for five minutes without being told off.

The table is causing the confusion here.

• Chairs by themselves = clearly for customers who are waiting for an order, like in a pharmacy

• Table by itself = probably to put your drink on while you add milk/sugar

• Table and chairs = sitting down to eat

The bakery either needs to get rid of the table or else put up a sign stating that no food can be consumed on the premises.

while you have your snacks in comfort.

HOW VERY DARE YOU, OP. SITTING AT A TABLE!

This thread is hilarious. What kind of acrobatics do the contrary posters have to do to come up with these responses to such ordinary expectations.

Poster sits at a table in a bakery to eat a sausage roll: SHE IS FLAGRANTLY EATING SNACKS IN COMFORT!