To say that if the assisted dying bill isn't passed....

[OnceUponATimeInTheWest]

that, regardless of where you personally stand on the issue, it will finally be undeniable that we do not live in a truly representative democracy at all?

Given the latest poll in the Times, it is clear that the vast majority of the population support the bill (65% for and 13% against) and yet most of the media seems to be full of story after story about this person or that coming out against it (unsurprisingly, often people with a religious background). I don't remember seeing nearly as many stories about someone telling us they support the bill. The narrative feels as though it is being steered in only one direction.

I mean, it's already fairly much clear that our elected politicians prefer to tell us what to do and what we should think, rather than actually representing our wishes. Otherwise immigration and transgender issues would not still be dominating the headlines. The fact that an amendment to remove bishops from the house of lords failed recently should also tell us that religion still plays far too much of a role in what is an overwhelmingly secular society.

If this bill fails, then anyone in future trying to tell us that we live in one of the greatest democracies in the world is, at this point, just gaslighting us.

Exactly. And they haven't been busy campaigning for better palliative care all along, have they? Just dragging it out as a 'reason' to support their view.

No they are not worse at all

Do you really believe that politicians are more ethical and philosophical than everyone else? Seems a bit unlikely to me.

Yeah don’t want to shock you but lots of other countries regulations aren’t that strict.

And this is about drafting and scrutiny. Seriously hope it doesn’t pass.

This is why we have representative democracy, not emotional populus response (bring back hanging etc)

There's so much red tape and checks and measures just for surgery in the NHS. Just to see a consultant. Just to get a second opinion. They absolutely won't bring in any rules that start murdering disabled people the whole notion is hyperbolic and batshit. No doctor would sign off on that, simply.

It has happened in other countries with this law, what not here? It is far cheaper to kill someone than provide adequate care.

I hope assisted dying does not happen.
-Safeguards might be watered down.
-Precious last moments would be lost.
-Improvements in treatment and palliative care, and the availability of it, might not be made in the future because they would no longer be considered necessary.
-People might be pressurised into dying before their time because carers/families do not want to look after them or pay for their care.
-People might believe they are a burden and choose to die early - even when their life still had meaning - and gave meaning to others.
-Resources might be diverted to assisted dying from other areas of the health service.
-Deciding that in certain circumstances it is acceptable to take a human life breaks the principle that human life is sacrosanct and therefore demeans the value of human life. This weakens arguments against the death penalty, late stage abortions and involuntary euthanasia.
-It is not inconceivable that some medical professionals, “powers that be” and even governments can at times be corrupted - we are all safer if they do not have a legal mechanism in place which allows them to decide we’d be better off dead.
-We should not just do what the majority wants on every issue. In British democracy we vote for the people who represent us and then trust them to make decisions in our stead having considered all the facts, debated them thoroughly and given them a great deal of thought - it’s not a perfect system, but no better system currently exists.

Personally I'm not a big fan of paternalism and I also have very little faith in our politicians to do what's right for me, especially given how little actual choice we have when it comes to voting in our ridiculous FPTP system.

You mention Brexit, but who was it who decided we should have a referendum about that in the first place?

People proved how much they knew about complicated issues when they voted for Brexit. The majority aren't always right - would you like the evidence?

How would Drs know if there was coercion involved?

How would the NHS, which has people lying on hospital floors, manage this efficiently?

How do you know that this bill wouldn't be amended opening the floodgates for other issues such as disabilities and mental health problems?

Elderly care is very expensive in the UK, how do you know that people wouldn't be pressured into this to save on their inheritance?

What about people who recover or are misdiagnosed?

Recently 3,000 healthcare professionals signed a letter saying that the NHS and hospice care could coerce people into this to save money.

People adamantly for this bill talk about themselves. People against the bill are concerned about everyone, including the vulnerable.

This is such a twisted way if looking at it. Compare to say abortion, most agree that a womans body is her own business. Most only talk about themselves because they don't want to speak for everybody as they believe it should be a choice.

Consider then, that I speak for everybody, when I say leaving a a person to suffer through a slow agonising death, which is what happens for 90 percent of people because 'passing peacefully in their sleep' is an idealised fantasy, is disgusting. We don't even treat animals like that. If I had a dog that screamed when it was touched, and needed to be touched 5, 6, 10 times a day, to be given medicine and kept clean, that had no hope of recovery, I would be told that I was selfish and abusive to force this animal to suffer for my own benefit.

Death comes for everybody so I speak for everybody when I say the option should be available. It should be a choice, much like many other things. Offering the choice doesn't take anything away from those who would refuse it.

Precious last moments would not be lost as you get to say you want to die and your family could be with you.
You do know that withering in pain at the end isnt precious.
Human life is sanctosant is a religious point if view in my mind and shpukdnt play anything to do with this

Anyone against assisted dying needs to get themselves over to the elderly parents board on MN.
Pallative care doesn’t really exist in this country and even if we threw shedloads of money at it there is a limit to what can be done.
Do you want to be the person living in pain for days, months, or even years which seems to be the case for about 30% of my family.

People against the bill are concerned about everyone? Where is their concern for those who are suffering and want to end their pain?

But no, let's ignore all of them because at some point in the future someone else 'might' be unable to resist some kind of pressure to end their own life, despite all of the safeguards in place.

If Brexit taught us anything, it was that people are ill informed, don't research and understand complex issues and vote emotionally. Even when the consequences of their vote are long-reaching and irreversible.

The job of politicians if they were any good is to consider all the consequences, the background, the ethics. And not vote in a knee-jerk way.

We aren't Switzerland. We don't have the same history and culture as them. A truly direct democracy would be an utter shambles in the UK.

If you polled me on this, it would entirely depend on the question. Are you broadly in favour of people having the right to end their own life in the event they had a terminal illness? Yes. Do you think the UK is capable of administering euthanasia without it becoming a complete mess like Canada? No.

I wonder if those with such faith in the medical profession remember the issue over blanket DNRs being put on the records of those with learning disabilities during Covid.

I have a disabled DD and would be very fearful for her if this came into law.

The polls you are referring to aren’t supporting the specific bill being proposed they are supporting the principle of assisted dying. Rightly so there have been a number of concerns raised about the content of the bill which many supporters of the principle (medical and non medical) of assisted dying are concerned that it does not give sufficient protections or give appropriate consideration as to how this will actually work in practice. Quick law is more often than not bad law. This needs much more detailed consultation and consideration to ensure that when a bill for assisted dying is put to parliament it will carry support as it has been extensively thought through and the appropriate safeguards alongside the how it will be implemented are included.

You don't speak for me and are offering platitudes instead of reasoned arguments.

Human beings aren't animals, it's dehumanising to speak of people as though they're dogs. Just like it's dehumanising to pressure people into suicide because you want to save on the budget or free up a bed.

State sanctioned suicide is a seismic change in the way we view life and the value we place on it. These poorly thought out safeguards will soon loosen like other countries.

This tunnel vision where you only see how this effects you, means that others who are vulnerable could be unnecessarily killed. Try to imagine a world where it's not just you effected but other people as well.

What safeguards? You haven't answered any of my questions. Let's start with one:

How will Drs know if someone is being coerced?

Because they have to go in front of judges to. So maybe they could be asked questions and besides we are talking about six months left to live here . Of they keep saying I don't want be a burden then maybe that should be explored further asked

I think you have a point and would be glad of a referendum on this issue. Far too much what abouttery for my liking. I think politicians don’t want to be painted as granny killers or trying to pinch the pennies. I rather suspect if it doesn’t go through there will be another go at it in ten years so more of a when than an if. I fully respect people who have opinions different to mine but I object to them effectively overruling the majority. I personally think along with the right to life there should be a right to decide how your life ends.

To many strawman arguments here. This bill is not about encouraging people to commit suicide no pressure at all.
You say that it's wrong to compare humans to dogs I disagree. I think when I see a dog that is suffering, the has a very bad illness. You put it down because you don't want it to suffer. I would love to be able to say that about other people too. And you talk about vulnerable people But who is going to be encourage them to do this? The law is that you're going to have to do it in front of a judge?So sadly, those who cannot even speak might not even have to have this, which I think is really sad because they don't get a choice

Parliament ARE having a free vote on it.

It's very clear to me that given the cost of social care and the strain and enormous burden on the state the NHS is that the culture will rapidly shift and the criteria will expand even faster. It's recklessly naive to pretend otherwise. The polls say that people prefer better palliative care as an option.

It's like abortions, it needs to be signed off by two doctors that it will adversely affect the mothers mental health to continue. When was the last time a doctor didn't sign off on an abortion?

Also, Democracies are suited to homogenous societies 10k or less.

Not millions of people from diverse backgrounds with competing interests.

Bless your cotton socks if you ever thought this was a democracy. I'm baffled it's taken you this long.

This is not quick law. How long have we been discussing this? How many other bills have been put forward? How many other countries have systems we can copy or learn from? How much longer are we going to ignore the wishes of the population of this country.

If they really want other safeguards, let them propose amendments to this bill. Let them come up with a law that supposedly meets their standards. Otherwise, in my opinion, it's all just excuses to do nothing.