To say that if the assisted dying bill isn't passed....

[OnceUponATimeInTheWest]

that, regardless of where you personally stand on the issue, it will finally be undeniable that we do not live in a truly representative democracy at all?

Given the latest poll in the Times, it is clear that the vast majority of the population support the bill (65% for and 13% against) and yet most of the media seems to be full of story after story about this person or that coming out against it (unsurprisingly, often people with a religious background). I don't remember seeing nearly as many stories about someone telling us they support the bill. The narrative feels as though it is being steered in only one direction.

I mean, it's already fairly much clear that our elected politicians prefer to tell us what to do and what we should think, rather than actually representing our wishes. Otherwise immigration and transgender issues would not still be dominating the headlines. The fact that an amendment to remove bishops from the house of lords failed recently should also tell us that religion still plays far too much of a role in what is an overwhelmingly secular society.

If this bill fails, then anyone in future trying to tell us that we live in one of the greatest democracies in the world is, at this point, just gaslighting us.

Unless you can point to a significant number of those deaths somehow being against the will of the person concerned, then this just tells me that the law is doing what it is supposed to.

It's a good thing - people who want to end their lives are being allowed to, rather than being kept alive against their will.

We’re at at point in life where I can put my dog to sleep because they’re suffering, but we also will keep humans alive for as long as scientifically possible, because we can.

I don’t want to just exist.

Ooh. That's me put in my place eh?

I thought that until I read about the Pathway actually works, and that giving close-to-death patients water is worse than not as their bodies are shutting down and don't want it

You can get a dog put to sleep because you have no one to take care of it. The dog can be perfectly healthy and happy. Comparisons with dogs are meaningless.

literally 3 to 4 people per day in 2022.......and rising

Exactly; a very good point.

Those who feel most strongly about making the change will be more likely to respond. I feel the poll will already be unreliable due to selection bias.

And let's face it, Brexit was a fucking car crash. The populace should NOT be voting on important things like this, because I imagine there's a ton of diplomatic and confidential stuff we have zero idea about, that bears on the decision. Plus, some people are so small minded they don't know what's good for them.

That is what it was meant for. But patients were being put on it far too early. In some cases patients got better and left hospital.
The practice of these things always differs from what was meant.

I think if you are arguing from the point of your own personal autonomy you are failing to recognise the complexity of drafting law which gives you autonomy whilst protecting those who are more vulnerable. There are many ways to be vulnerable to coercion and I don't think the current proposal does anything more than pay lip service to that.

It would be entirely possible for a family responsible for providing care to do such a bad job of it and cause enough suffering that someone might agree to assisted dying just to be free from neglect induced suffering? If they are dependent on family how would they ever communicate their dilemma? Such a situation might be rare but that does not mean it's not worthy of consideration so that safeguards can be included in the bill.

I think polls give a useful indicator of general agreement with a principle but suspect that more detailed questioning would give a more nuanced picture.

I was very much in favour of assisted dying but developments in Canada have given me pause.

But of course the practice of assisted dying according to so many people on here won't stray at all from 'what was meant'...

I haven't seen or replied to any polls (not representative), however I am in the process of writing to my mp to give them my view.

Forget a meaningless poll only seen by a tiny percentage, and follow the democratic process we have in this country. Talk to your MP.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/06/canada-legalized-medical-assisted-suicide-euthanasia-death-maid/673790/

some cautionary tales

4.1 percent even 7 percent isn't many of the people that die and how many is the pop of Canada to see .
It was stated 4.1 percent had assisted deaths i stated that isn't alot out of other people that died.

'some people [...] don't know what's good for them'

Say no more.

But how many more die other ways you have to look at the big picture. If they were suffering why not why shouldn't they be able to

Oh I did that weeks ago.

As we all know though, policy is almost always dictated by a small and noisy minority. Politicians should be able to see beyond that (but unfortunately often don't).

"The value of my 'life with suffering' is mine to decide"

Sounds good.

BUT...it won't be yours to decide like you think. Once bureaucracy enters the equation it would all go to shit.

Given the way things work right now, you'll have people who ask to die being left on the waiting list to die in agony before they even get a consultation and people who just want help to live being offered it on a fast track to stop them being an annoyance to the staff of whatever institution is involved.

You can call me cynical if you like but I've got experience of "the system", a lot of skin in the game, and they struggle to get an awful lot right first time. You can't phone up or write a letter to get a mistake fixed once you're dead. It's kinda final.

I fail to see why I am even bothering to write this though as you are clearly entrenched in your view and starting to get quite nasty about it now.

My mp said to people that it was against his religion so how to persuade that which has annoyed me so much

Ah @Littlemissgobby I see. What is the injection that allows people to fall asleep and die immediately please? It also has to be one they can administer to themselves. I believe this is what is being proposed.
My reasoning was we had a form of assisted dying and people didn’t like it. Also a very heavily sedated a person would not aware of thirst or hunger I would think. I do take your point that it took longer though. I was very glad my father wasn’t in pain anymore. He couldn’t eat or drink much prior to LCP as he had Oesophageal cancer.
Assisted dying is the sort of thing that sounds very good in principle but how is it put into practice and who does it? I don’t have any issues with anyone wanting to end their lives if suffering intolerable pain and terminal as my father was but practically it’s not as simple as a quick injection.

None of which I've seen never mind voted on.

I'm very uncomfortable with the prospect frankly.

But that's a different theory of democracy, under which MPs are there to vote with the opinion of their constituents.

In that system virtually all MPs would vote for...

• lower taxes and higher spending
• development, but always somewhere else
• pork-barrel spending, in their constituencies.

No government could deliver a coherent agenda.

And because the people's opinion actually shifts slower than our governments change colour, I think we'd end up with less ability to try different approaches when old ones have failed. You could never "throw the bums out", because policy-wise, any new MPs would vote the same as the old. Only the faces would change.

Quite nasty - where exactly? Saying that I should be able to decide myself is nasty now is it?

You seem equally entrenched. I won't insult you for it though.

I read that and my thoughts are there is a paralysed man who was a climber but now he cannot move anything at all and he is not dying but begging to die he's in the uk. His father and himself was on telly, basically stating that if he helps his son, he will go to prison.
I would have no qualms with him being allowed to assisted suicide. Some of the people you site have got a lot of illnesses, and maybe they just don't want to be alive anymore, and why is it that we're not allowed to do that?

One woman in her late 20s with autism wanted assisted dying in Canada.

Her father took it to court to try and stop it, as she is actually a healthy young woman. She just has autism.

The judge said she was allowed to get it, because it is her choice.

And that was that.

If the Tories has presented this as a policy the Left would be up in arms. Another 'hold my coat' moment for Starmer and Co.

That is an understandable fear about what COULD happen. But in the meantime, people are DEFINITELY suffering now, without recourse to be being able to end that suffering.

How many people have to die in horrible circumstances because of a perceived risk of how safeguards MIGHT fail in the future?