'Females.'

[Toenailz]

Anyone else cringe when people refer to women as 'females' in the context of completely casual conversation? And also wonder where the fuck it started and why it's become so popular?

Usually utilised by men referring to women as 'females' and, on here, usually by scorned women referring to another woman that their DH is being in some way inappropriate with, as 'another female' or 'a female'.

Yeah yeah, the correct biological terms and all, but can't help feeling this has a rather sexist connotation to reduce women to less, as usual?

I think that unless you're using it in a scientific context, "35% of males from the group, and 45% of the females", then yeah, the term is outdated.

Has piqued my curiosity though. I wonder when men and women became more acceptable vs males and females... what prompted that.

YADNBU. I despise it. It is dehumanising and people using it because it excludes trans women are very short sighted, imo. It used clearly show a hatred for women and girls.

I know what you mean OP. Unfortunately it has crept into my own language since the meaning of the word woman isn't always clear to everyone anymore. And I know this isn't the context you mean, but if it weren't for that context I'd never have used it, so can't really answer you honestly without referencing that. I work in a role where separation of people on the grounds of biological sex is necessary and so have adopted 'female' and 'male' so there is no doubt what type of person is being referred to. It then becomes a habit in more casual conversation.

Are you suggesting the terms male and female were used as nouns for humans before the words man and woman?

I'm used to be tempted to ask "female what? Pigeon/Hedgehog"? When reading reports.
@Frozensun as long as he realises that female is their sex, not species.
However I'm also on the spectrum, so I like specifics.

Nope, just curious as to the mechanism behind why certain words become more permissable/preferable than others

Male and female are much much less precise terms than men and women so it feels an odd choice when talking about humans.

It’s not just outdated, it’s wrong. In fact, I think its use as a noun is more of a modern thing than an outdated thing.

So what is the alternative when one is specifically referencing female women as oppose to transwomen? The word 'cis' is highly offensive to many women also, not to mention being rather a niche term that hasn't really gained much traction in the mainstream, so is often not understood. I don't like female much either, but struggle for an alternative.

My mother says 'females.' It drive me absolutely nuts. Recently I've told her a few times to stop doing it, something I would normally never do as her personality is totally flat until she perceives criticism and then she explodes in drama. Thankfully she went for 'baffled annoyance' rather than years of sulking. She was a language teacher so I used the grammar explanation - female is an adjective not a noun.

I have some sympathy for her because she grew up in mid-late 20th century Ireland where the worst thing you could possibly be was a woman.

This is honestly not me being goady, I’m genuinely curious, but what sort of circumstance would need you to specifically reference female women? (Outside of the trans debate of course, where the differences are already made clear within the conversation.)

People who menstruate, people who go through the menopause, people who suffer employment discrimination on the basis of their perceived likelihood to take maternity leave, people affected by the war on abortion rights.

It's not all the time, but there are a variety of occasions, some of them pretty niche, on which you'd want a term more snappy than "cis women, trans men and non-binary AFAB people".

Those are women.

But surely it’s already implied in the conversation in all of those circumstances?

If men/males want to weaponise the words female, that's their issue; I'm not going to let them rule my vocabulary.

The word 'woman' now appears to include males who claim to 'feel' like women and demand access to female only spaces.

I'll use female as much as I want, and won't be prevented from doing so by misogynists or entitled males.

They are also female.

Of course they are - 'female' as in female adult humans. Not 'females', which could refer to anything from a budgie to the end of a cable.

Why shouldn't we be able to have a term which excludes trans women?

I mean, if they weren't using the word "women" to mean something other than biological sex then we wouldn't have this problem.

But I don't actually need a word in my vocabulary for "anyone, female or male, who calls themselves a woman". That is a non existent group with nothing in common. I do need to discuss female people, and that is something which does not concern trans women, who are male.

Then use 'female people', if you must. Otherwise you're still responsible for that dehumanisation. I personally will continue to use 'women', as I think it still means the same as it ever did to most people.

I do use female people when the conversation is about trans issues. Otherwise I just use "women" (which is a synonym for female people and that's how I will use it whether other people are happy about that or not).

Is this a serious question? Anything relating to biology, like smear tests, pregnancy,, medical trials and studies, periods etc. Sports, women's history, acknowledging current events like the talibans treatment of women, crime stats, sex based violence, same sex attraction and rights...I mean the list just goes on and on. Why shouldn't we have a word that seperates us from males?

Speaking as a man in his 50s who lives a life of avoiding most social media, tv and looking at the news only in context of politics, economy and international events. I struggle with how to describe girls/women/ladies. I heard a radio 4 programme, the reunion ,a few years ago and the greenham common protesters objected to the term ladies. And girls seems demeaning. I have used females only once, in the same context as Friday night dinner as being a older guy asking the awkward question to my younger friend if they have a girlfriend in an attempt to be humorous. Women seems blunt.

So basically I am lost. I use ladies as a term of respect and hope it doesn't offend. I use women to describe the female of the human species and would never use females outside of specifically humorous intent.

OMG, I hadn't noticed!!
No forgiveness required!

I don't care what other people use words for inaccurately - me calling a red car blue doesn't make it blue.

I use 'women' when I mean women, and 'trans women' if I mean trans women. It's completely straightforward because one is female, the other is male.

Yes, it is a serious question which is why I asked it (obviously…)

Why shouldn't we have a word that seperates us from males?

We do: women.

Like I said in a PP, surely anything related to our biology is already female-implied? I think MN heightens the trans debate so much that people forget that almost everyone in the real world (including trans people) know what is meant when “women’s issues” (so to speak) are discussed. I personally have never come across any “trans activists” who get upset over transwomen not being included in conversations about women’s periods or anything similar. Why do I need to start saying “female periods”? I’m a woman. A “female person” if you really must, but woman is just fine.