To think parents shouldn’t bring toddlers to fancy restaurants?

[ThatFancyExpert]

It’s not about “hating kids,” but some places should be reserved for adults who want peace and quiet.

Today I have learnt that 'caffs' and Pizza Express are the places that Mumsnet parents take their kids before they learn how to behave in more expensive restaurants. And apparently it is OK to throw food around there but, hey ho, as long they don't do it in a £100+ a head restaurants it's OK. Cos rich people with kids like to eat out too.

I don't expect anyone to be "charmed," by her. I just think that parents should be able to go to nice dinners, too, without having to pay a hundred dollars extra for a babysitter. We try to keep the disturbances to a minimum. On the rare occasion, she'll sit quietly and contentedly with her tablet and headphones on.

Also, how are children supposed to learn how to behave in those settings if you never take them?

It's not. We keep hoping to get one of the lucky times when she behaves.

I dont know many restaurants that dont allow kids.
It really depends on their behaviour. DH and I love going out to fancy places and we often bring the kids. Both are very well behaved. As babies they would sleep in the pram, toddlers they would just sit there and play with the napkin. And now they are 8 and 10 they usually bring a book to read.
They never bothered anyone 🤷🏻‍♀️

Everybody thinks this; this is not a unique view.

Family gastropubs? No. But a serious dining restaurant - of course that's a stupid place to take anyone under about 14/15

My toddler goes to fancy restaurants 🤷‍♀️

I have children and love eating out. I don’t take my young children, it’s really not fair on others diners who are paying a lot of money and want a nice evening.

Im also very mindful that they may be enjoying a rare night out without their own kids. There are plenty of family friendly restaurants to go to.

We did this by accident a couple of weeks ago. We’d been to a children’s theatre show and I’d promised them an ice cream but when we came out it was pouring with rain so ended up in the very fancy tea room next to the theatre. I don’t think we were very welcome!

Hmmm @RockyFowlboa I think giving up those dinners for a few years is just part and parcel of being a parent tbh.

My parents took me to a really nice place for my birthday one year when I had a 10 month old. It was fine - she didn't cause a fuss - but it turned out there wasn't a changing table. These aren't family dining venues.

How do they learn to behave? You teach them at appropriate venues where children are welcome and then take when they're teens and can be guaranteed to behave in a calm and quiet manner

I don’t mind…

live kids

That is for the people who run those venues to decide.

Since the advent of loud devices, I don’t give a flying f about toddlers. I hate with a passion devices that emit noises I can hear, even if they’re relatively quiet. I’d have a screaming baby over a device any day.

I was once in a two Michelin star restaurant when a couple arrived with their children who were approximately 4 and maybe 10-12 months.

They ordered 3 x the £220 tasting menu, and the kids very happily shared. Seeing a baby in a high chair sucking on lobster tail while his 4 year old sister excitedly chatted about her favourite blue cheeses was so lovely. They were so well behaved and clearly used to the finer things in life.

I’m not sure it’s ever really “ok” for them to throw food. But people choosing to dine in family restaurants that are normally a bit more boisterous are probably less likely to have their intended evening spoilt than people who have chosen a very different vibe.

I think it's more that the owners shouldn't allow small children in their restaurants.
Some hotels are child free.

It's not really up to you what other people do, is it? If they're not breaking the law then it's none of your business. If you don't like your surroundings, move yourself. Simple.

Mine were all in bed early ish (8-9pm), we took them to lovely restaurants during the day when they were little. If you don’t want children in “fancy” restaurants (whatever “fancy” means) then eat later, problem solved. We often visited Michelin starred restaurants when our children were small, I’ve never felt unwelcome but we never used screens and if they became noisy one of us removed them and took them outside to calm down. A good run in a park before going and being clear what was acceptable behaviour worked for us. By the time the youngest was 5 one look from me if they were misbehaving did the trick. We went to child friendly places from they were a few weeks old and if they cried we took them out. They learned from a young age to sit and behave appropriately and not to inconvenience other people. They were never allowed to run around, get up from the table or talk loudly, we stuck to the same rules at home as well. We never allowed them to get up and down from the table at home, or run around eating food, they sat at the table to eat, that was non negotiable for every meal. We’re we strict? Probably. There was no way my children were going to inconvenience or annoy other diners or waiting staff.

Does this mean if a restaurant owner has decided it best suits their business model to allow kids, they should nonetheless bar them because some people think they're entitled to it?

I've taken my children to a nice restaurant occasionally when they were that small, early evening so probably left by 8ish. But they were well behaved, stayed in their seats, no whingeing or being noisy (they love their food and were busy eating!) so they weren't disturbing anyone. If children are noisy or running around, that's inconsiderate to other diners.

Out of genuine curiosity, mainly cause I've worked as a server, what exactly did you want the staff member to do that you complained to after the ordeal was over?

But I don't think it should be "part and parcel.* It feels to me a lot like the people who get irritated with babies on airplanes, as if not being able to travel because you might disturb some people is "part and parcel" of being a parent.

I don't foresee trying to get a 3 yo to be quiet and still in a restaurant full of noise and movement going very well.

Taking a toddler to a fancy restaurant is no different to taking a toddler to a non-fancy restaurant. You need to be in a private room if you’re that bothered by children.

Personally, I really enjoy a toddler or little kid in a restaurant or cafe as long as they are well behaved in line with what you would expect for their age, not posing a danger to the staff and their parents aren't ignoring them whilst they are running amock. I will very happily engage with a small person doing their small person thing.

It was just some of the previous posters irritated me with their views about how they prepared their kids to upgrade to the '£100+ a head places'. If they are teaching good manners, those manners should equally apply in cheap or expensive venues, not withstanding latitude on young energy as appropriate to that venue.

Depends on the children. Mine sat in high chairs and coloured, did puzzles etc. dd1 went to her first Michelin star restaurant at 9.5 months by accident (a long time ago before home internet) - we were away on holiday and walked past a restaurant which I stopped to read the menu, they had a midweek special, the maitre d' come out to encourage us in and I said sorry another time, due to dd - they said come on it! Dd loved it, was beautifully behaved and loved restaurants basically.

Some children are taught to sit at the table daily, it makes a difference, you can't expect kids who normally kid in front of the tv to magically behave in restaurants

If a restaurant allows children then anyone should feel free do bring their children. If you have an issue with kids at fancy restaurants you should check their policy beforehand and make a decision accordingly. My favourite upscale "special occasion" restaurant in London allows kids over 3 for lunch, but only over 8 for dinner!