AIBU in thinking GP’s are not entitled to see their grandchildren?

[sushiandarollie]

I have a very narcissistic FIL, our relationship has completely broken down due to his behaviour (see previous post of mine) but in essence he phoned up my husband a couple of months ago being critical of everything we have said /done wrong, nit picking from conversations, that he hated me and all stemming from ‘my influence’. He’s come around to apologise- all very rehearsed and more of ‘I didn’t think anything I said offended you but IF it did , I apologise’. He’s understanding that the relationship is irreparably damaged but is adamant with quite some entitlement that it shouldn’t stop him seeing his grandchild (our DS who is 3). How do I fix this?

What is it you want to do though? Move on or keep low/no contact?

I feel a line it’s been crossed by him, and I’ve frankly had enough of his behaviour so I want to cut contact

What does your dh say?

There is no legal 'right' but do you want him to have a relationship with your dc, or does your dh? Of your dh wants a relationship
with his dad and wants his dc to as well then that's reasonable. But it's also reasonable you don't want any contact.

It would be fine to allow your dh and dc to see FIL without you and stay no contact with him yourself.

What does your husband think/feel about his Dad continuing to see his child, as the decision isn't yours alone?

There is usually no legal right.

The grandparents who do have rights are a minority eg they looked after the child for years because the parents were in jail which isn’t the case here.

As pp said, what does your partner think? If you split and partner wants FIL to have contact then the other way to stop it is if FIL is on the sex offenders register or similar.

It’s important to me that my dc have relationships with their gps . That isn’t based on the quality or worthiness of their gps. We can love people who are flawed, and I think that is an important lesson - it allows them space to have a few flaws too themselves, and not feel love is earned through perfectionism.

As long as I can protect them from
harm, I would prioritise the dc’s right to know their gps (not the gp’s rights)

There is no legal right for grandparents to have contact with grandchildren. It is possible for a grandparent to make an application through the courts, but this is usually where the grandparent has cared for the child/where the NRP and the grandparents together are opposing the RP's decision not to allow contact. The police officers who dealt with us (during our messy break with my mother) said that if the parents are together, are fit parents and are agreed that the grandparents shouldn't have contact, there isn't a snowball in hell's chance of it being granted against their wishes.

So a lot depends on how your DH feels. But no, your FIL has no more rights over your child than a random man in the street.

What does you your DH want to do?

This is largely for your DH to lead on, given it's his father. Obviously he needs to bear in mind loyalty to you as his wife also but I don't think that absolutely has to mean him going NC if he doesn't want to.

I think it's fine for you to cut contact yourself. I also think that if FIL can't be civil or has burned his bridges with repeatedly appalling behaviour then he can't expect to retain the privilege of attending things like family get togethers you host, Christmases at your home, birthday parties etc. But if your husband wants to stay in contact with his father and wants that for his son as well, I don't think it's your place to stop them from visiting FIL by themselves as long as the visits aren't excessively often so as to interfere with family time.

I've read your other post. Your FIL sounds absolutely dreadful. He has been disgustingly rude to you so I would not hesitate to cut off contact with him.

He has no legal right to see your child, but your husband may still want him to have contact. What does your DH think about his father's behaviour?

Apart from his attitude towards you, what was he like as a parent? What does DH think?

If DH wants to continue the relationship then I wouldn't hinder it, but at the same time I wouldn't facilitate it. I would leave it to DH to sort it out.

Your DC will come to their own conclusions about their grandad, and unless there is a major issue like abuse that you haven't mentioned then I would not stop DC getting to know their grandparents because I don't like them.

If you don’t think your FIL will hurt your DC whether that be physically, or psychologically, then I’d let your DH take your DS to their house. If you think the narc will unleash his psychological terror on him, then no don’t agree to it. I have a narc in-law in my life so I know what it’s like.

I think the question you need to ask yourself is what I’ve said above. If you are just doing it to punish FIL that might backfire on you with your DH.

You need to go NC with your FIL. By doing so he’ll get to see less of your son anyway as he won’t be welcome at Christmas, birthdays, and in general. I find it’s mostly the woman who creates social opportunities and you dropping the rope will limit them. Let your DH sort everything out for his family, they are his problem. Facilitate nothing. Since I totally dropped the rope on my in-laws my life is infinitely better.

If there’s no safeguarding issue, let your DH take your son over and you spend the time on you. That’s not FIL winning, believe me he’s the loser in all this.

You might benefit from reading “How To Kill A Narcissist” to help you deal with FIL. It massively helped me.

In this situation the grand child has rights to continue their relationship with their grandparent.

OP, it comes down to what DH wants here.

I don't think grandparents have a right to see their grandchildren but I think grandchildren have a right to know their grandparents if possible. Obviously all children should be protected from adults who harm them though. If DH wants to and can facilitate a relationship between his dad and child which won't harm the child I think he should.

Yes, get DH’s opinion, but if your FIL has form for crushing self esteem and self worth under his heel and will at some point want to recruit DS3 as his source of narcissist supply, then I’d be telling my DH that he’s not taking him and putting him in harms way.

Why is it down to you to 'fix this'?

What does your husband say about his father seeing his grandchild?

Fix what? The relationship? It doesn't sound like you want to.

Do you mean his demands to keep seeing your child? I guess that depends on how your husband feels about it all and what he wants? Does he agree with you or does he want to keep seeing his dad /him to have a relationship with your child?

My husband doesn’t know what he wants to do. His father was a crap father growing up, his dad remarried a woman who purposely and repeatedly excluded my husband, and he was essentially brought up by his loving grandparents. But his father turned on the waterworks and my husband feels guilty.

I struggle wanting my (miracle IVF) child being around a self centred, ungenerous , arrogant sexist pig of a man who has very strong views on everything including me and our life (we live in a nice area with good jobs in the NHS) whereas he’s a bitter old man with a lot of regrets

Hard nope from me. Don't respect me as a person/mother, dont get access to my child.

Hopefully DH will support you on this, he doesnt need to go NC but you are perfectly entitled to.

There's flaws and there's flaws

Ah, so your DH is doing the old “ better to have a shit dad, than no dad”. Your FIL has done a right number on him to make him feel such FOG.

Given what you’ve said I’d keep your DS away from FIL and let your DH go alone. He was a shit dad to your DH, now he’s treating his DS’s wife like shit. He’s not changed.

Everyone on here always says let your DH deal with them but if they are abusive to your DH and they can’t stick up for themselves with this toxic person I believe it’s our duty as a loving wife to step in and tell that toxic narc that they can fuck off and you aren’t letting them treat your partner like that.

I’d now say NO. FIL can reap what he's sown.

My husband doesn’t know what he wants to do. His father was a crap father growing up, his dad remarried a woman who purposely and repeatedly excluded my husband, and he was essentially brought up by his loving grandparents. But his father turned on the waterworks and my husband feels guilty.

There are some questions that your DH needs to ask himself. Does he believe that his father has changed? If so, is that a truthful belief or is it wishful thinking? And if not, does he want your DS to potentially be subjected to the same sort of treatment that he was subjected to at his father’s hands? Does he believe that his father’s upset at not getting his own way trumps the importance of protecting your DS from dealing with his father’s crap?

I’m more concerned with the rights of the child to have a relationship with extended family members, rather than anyone’s ‘right’ to see a child. If your FiL and you just had a personality clash and he was otherwise completely respectful of your family unit, then that would be one thing, but why allow his issues to damage another generation?

Does your fil treat you badly generally? Dismisses your opinion or talks down to you or your dh?
This kind of thing is not nice for your dc to see and can be harmful.
Your dc could be treated the same as dh was.
I wouldn't want my dc to be subjected to harmful relationships.

Actually I think there is off to google.....

Found this so it does depend on the court but he can ask for court mamdated contact
https://www.gov.uk/contact-grandchild-parents-divorce-separate#:~:text=You%20do%20not%20have%20an,mediation