To not want DC to go to grammar school even though I did?

[Jyi]

Based on my own experiences I didn't want grammar school education for my children. I was coached from around age 8, thought getting in was the be all and end all, once in found the environment competitive and took me years to settle. Again, the academic pressure was stifling and ramped up more with GCSEs and A levels. Despite becoming a well paid professional in adulthood I am often anxious, suffer imposter syndrome and feel a complete and utter failure that I am not outstanding. I was ruminating the other day about doing a PhD so I could 'prove' myself (to who!?). I wonder if I'm burnt out sometimes. I wanted my children more than anything to believe in their own worth and not feel their value lies in what exams they have done or publications they have to their name.

However, I was explaining to an old friend how we considered moving house and didn't as that would throw us into a council with this system. She pointed out that I got outstanding GCSEs and a levels (which I did, I got the top grade for every qualification I sat) and was a bit dismissive of my reasons saying I was denying my kids an opportunity and 'pulling up the ladder' based on my prejudices.

I've got a few years to move yet, so tell me, am I unreasonable? Should I reconsider?

You don't mention your DC in your post at all

You should choose the school (and by extension the system) that is best for your DC.

If your DC is insanely bright then grammar is likely to be fine for them. If they are already struggling at primary then I wouldn't be moving into a grammar area.

Are your children academic? If so give them a few practise tests to get used to them and give them the opportunity. No excessive coaching, if they can't get in off that it isn't the right place for them and will always need tutoring.

If they aren't academic then don't.

My DD is at a grammar school and is happy and doing well academically. I think she'd be equally happy and doing well academically at a decent comprehensive school. I don't think it's worth the major upheaval of moving house and area just to move into a grammar school area, particularly when it's clearly an emotive subject for you.

They are both very bright, and confident in the primary school they are in.

I was very bright though 🤷‍♂️ I got level 6 in all my sats etc.

Hard to say - it depends on the individual school as well as on the individual child. I don't know how old you are, but schools have changed a lot since you were at a grammar school and they also just vary wildly from each other, even within the grammar school sector.

I've been a teacher for 30 years and have taught in all kinds of schools. The girls' grammar where I currently teach is honestly an absolute haven of loveliness compared with even the reasonably good comprehensives in the area. The behaviour alone is enough reason to come here. It doesn't struggle to recruit good (or any!) teachers, unlike most schools now. There is genuine love of learning and respect for academic achievement, but also a really nurturing environment. I had reasons at the time for not trying to send my dd here, but I bitterly regret not doing so. Btw I went to a grammar myself too, in the 1980s.

With all due respect, OP, this is about your DC, and not you.

Tutoring from age 8 sounds excessive if you ask me. I've got a DC in one of the highest performing grammar schools in the country, and it is absolutely the right choice for them. We did tutoring for one year (to cover off areas in time for the 11 plus), never any work during school holidays, and no tutoring since. My DC is currently in Yr 11) self sufficient, and thrives being around like-minded students.

To us, it was always about finding the school that fit my DC and not the other way around.

So take yourself out of the equation and think about what'd be the best school (in terms of fit) for your DC.

This is not about you , it’s about your children . It also depends where you live eg if you live in Kent and your children are capable of going to Grammar you probably should unless you live near a certain few high schools . If you live in a truly comprehensive area it’s a bit different .

At the moment I live in a truly comprehensive area, local school is reasonably good. The move would mean going into grammar area which then , yes, means the high schools are absolutely shocking so they would have to sit the entrance Exams etc and try for grammar.

YANBU. I'm glad I live in a non-grammar area. I went to a comprehensive school and want that for my DC too.

I guess I was hot housed at school and at home, I probably could have passed without the intervention although it's hard to say of course in retrospect but I didn't just pass the 11 plus, I got nigh on full marks.

Also difficult to say about 'right' school as one of the grammars id be potentially ok with them going (or at least persuadable) to as it's more relaxed, multicultural, friends DC have had a positive experience but it's all for one or one for all really if we moved, we can't hang our hat on one school

I've worked in 2 private schools, 1 grammar school and 5 comprehensives. The comprehensives varied a lot, but none of them came anywhere close to the grammar or the private schools in providing a safe, supportive environment where learning was rarely disrupted.

OP is not about the school. It's about your DC. They might individually need different schools. It's the school that matches your individual child that matters.

Good grief. I wish I had your 'problems'. I know it's all relative but this is a touch too much whinging for me. Be happy with your lot. You sound successful and comfortable.

I think that people who enjoyed a "good" comprehensive education don't really appreciate what a "bad" one looks like, whether in a failing school, or a school with bullying problems, or a school with other behaviour issues, etc.

Likewise people who went to a grammar and found it tough may not fully appreciate how tough at comp may have been too!

I was a straight A* pupil upon leaving primary school, but suffered a truly horrendous crap comp, and left aged 16 having failed all my GCSEs. I retook them partly at college and partly by self study and passed them all, then passed A levels by self study and then chartered accountancy exams by a combination of self study and evening classes.

I'd never wish a "crap comp" on my son, who was likewise bright at primary school, so he took the 11+ (with minimal tutoring from us), passed it, and got a full suite of 8/9 grades at GCSE and 4 A*s at A level, and went onto a First degree in Maths at Uni.

Some of his primary friends who were likewise on the "top table" at primary and went to comps have done a lot worse and talking to them and/or their parents (we live in a village), some had a pretty horrid time at the comp and really struggled - bullying, disruption, etc.

IF, and that's the crux, IF the child is a high performer generally, then I'd always go for the grammar option so their education isn't limited. However, if they're not high achievers, then a grammar probably isn't for them. A kind of equation really - the more "tutoring" they need, the less likely they're flourish at a grammar!

Is there maybe a compromise?
Don't do what your parents did but be open to a grammar if you decide it's truly the best option for your children?

I went to a grammar school and don't have any of the hung-ups you are describing. My parents were really relaxed, I didn't need any tutoring except for language tutoring which I was already doing since the age of 6 as a hobby. I don't remember my school being massively competitive or exam-driven. It was quite a nice place to learn if you ignored some rather unsavory teachers.

Ignore me! Apologies.

At the moment I live in a truly comprehensive area, local school is reasonably good.

Many parents would be pretty horrified if they could be a fly on the wall in their local 'reasonably good' or even 'good' comprehensive, especially if they themselves went to a grammar school. Schools sell themselves very well. Most parents have no idea how much disruption goes on in even relatively good comprehensives, or how often kids are babysat by cover supervisors due to long-term absent teachers or simply lack of teachers. I think it often doesn't tend to even occur to kids to tell their parents, because they think it's just normal.

Just don’t tutor them, I wasn’t tutored and it was fine. If they are bright they could really benefit. It seems like your parents put a lot of pressure on you to perform. If you aren’t that kind of parent they won’t suffer the same impacts you did.

Your kids are not you and you are not your parents.

I think it depends on the grammar - I'm in a county where 30% of DCs go to the grammars. Our local mixed grammar isn't super pressured.

I agree. I tutor pupils from
a few local schools. One comp seems highly rated by parents but my tutees paint a different picture. One has three teachers for maths (year11) and thinks only one is a ‘real’ maths teacher. They spend more time being tested than learning and confidence is rock
bottom.

Exactly. I've worked in 'good' and even 'outstanding' schools which were anything but. Schools' reputations are not reliable. What schools say about themselves is sheer marketing and extremely unreliable.

I didn't want my DD to go to Grammar school because I thought that the pressure would be too much for her but she desperately wanted to go. So I relented and she did really well and the school were very supportive.

My mum had a friend who wouldn't let her DC go to Grammar school and they resented her for it, even as adults.

Listen to your DC.

Your post is all about your own school days, your own insecurity, impostor syndrome and perfectionism. I agree with a pp that you should be looking at your own children, their aptitudes and abilities, and resolving to parent them differently as regards their education. If you think they would intensive tutoring from the age of eight to get into any form of selective secondary, then don't opt for that. I have a DPhil (which, by the way, will not improve the mental health of someone with your tendencies), and went to Oxford from a shitty sink estate school which seldom sent anyone to university, far less higher-end ones, and with parents who wanted me to leave at 15. It's perfectly possible to achieve academically without going to a selective school.

In your shoes I would consider therapy both for your own MH and happiness, and so that you can have a clearer head to focus on what form of education would be best for your children without your own hangups getting in the way.

I went to a grammar school (long enough ago that there was no tutoring or pressure) and have many of the same feelings as you, but the two are completely independent. I am endlessly grateful to have had the opportunity of a good education as I would have been bullied mercilessly and had a poorer education at a comprehensive and we would have been financially disadvantaged if I'd gone private, which was the proposed alternative. I've had two mediocre professional careers, in spite of stellar academics, and my mother is endlessly disappointed in me (and always has been) so it's a mix of me feeling I should have made more of my abilities and my upbringing. I'd have loved my kids to have had the grammar opportunity but there are none here so they went private (and are very grateful for that opportunity).