To think that parents cannot leave money to severely disabled offspring free of IHT

[Noras]

Frankly I have been quite upset about farmers kicking up a fuss about IHT when they can transfer 3 million pounds of wealth IHT free and after that it only costs 20% which can be paid over a decade interest free.

As a parent of a disabled adult child I can only transfer one million pounds like anyone else and any unpaid IHT has to be paid over 10 years with 7% interest due.

We have other kids and can’t exclude them from our wills so that eats into the IHT allowance.

My son will struggle to work in any form of paid job.

I was discussing his placement in supported living with a social worker yesterday as a pretty likely destination

His life will inevitably be one of benefits eg universal credit and PIP

We have left % more to him due to his profound needs.

Our combined estate will face IHT charges especially with the fiscal drag.

So through no fault of my son he will live in relative poverty except for what is left after IHT into a vulnerable persons trust.

My son is used to nicer things eg holidays/ clothes etc and has some awareness of his current nicer life style even if he is not that driven by material things.

We would have to deprive ourselves of a decent retirement to ensure he is decently provided for,

I am heart broken to have given birth to someone who will live in relative poverty assuming he has a long life and the monies inherited have to cover say 45/50 years.

I am not the only parent waking up at 3am in fear of their kid’s future it’s a well known thing about parents of kids with disability.

AIBU to think that the Government should allow an IHT allowance for dependants who are classed as high needs eg PIP high or mid levels eg not really able to live independently etc? I can’t believe that they make no allowance in IHT terms for the disabled. As it is his care and needs have been an additional expense to us throughout his life eg 1:1 swimming lessons ,Ed Psych reports, SALT, private OT , personal trainers etc. This always exceeds disability benefits.

Inheritance tax is fair

There should be more support for disabled people

Working farms should be exempt from IHT if they can prove they provide x output and continue for y years after it's passed on otherwise it'll have to be paid

From what I hear from speaking to people who live in supported living and go to a club for people, the rents for supported living have gone up a lot and are not properly covered by any increase in benefits. All I know is that even attending the club is a challenge as they cannot afford the Uber hence begging for lifts. Also I understand that life is bleak hence the self harming. I’m not sure I want that for my son. I am going to make an appointment to see one close by and will get the financials and then can run the figures here.

Also there is a difference between people who can live independently with say supported living and those that needs care still as the latter will incur a social care charge. So yes some will live better than others. It depends if you have a social charge claw back.

Earnings are exempt form the claw back. The ideal is someone who can work as any earning are exempt form the social charge. Just being able to do a certain number of hours that can is ring fenced changes the picture considerably. In an ideal world DS will be able to just about say stack shelves for 10 or 15 hours and keep his earnings but that in itself would be an ask. Ideally he would work on some sort of clerical role with routine and a hugely supportive employer. These exemptions tend r on favour the physically disabled who might be able to work a bit rather than the ND types who are less able to conform to work and regulating themselves. In those cirfs you can keep your UC , few hours earnings and PIp

Sp you cannot generalise that my aunt or cousin has a great life as disabled as not all are the same and they have varying amounts of income and housing costs.

Anyhow my son has just come upstairs and is dis in using his electronic scheduling aid which is a huge leap. It prompts him through the day. So that’s a great success.

No, it’s applied to the entire value of the estate. If it’s never going to affect you - along with 90+% of people - I don’t understand why you care about the “fairness” or otherwise. My estate will probably be liable for a small amount due to house price inflation - if care home fees don’t get it first - I don’t care because I’ll be dead.

‘Is it worth making the public more aware of blackrock’s and our government intentions or will they just think that we are conspiracy theorists?
The whole iht issue isn’t about us paying our share and funding the nhs. It’s about controlling the land. I don’t think the vast majority of people understand this’

This is the latest from the farmers forum. Seemingly they think that the new IHT rules are because Starme is in league with the likes of Blackrock and they want all food production run by a few large corporate farmers to control the people. He who controls the food controls the people. In actual fact over 50% of food is produced by 8 % of farmers on just over 30% of land. About 41 % of farms produce less than £25000 worth of output and are simply not productive. They are so small they won’t incur any IHT and serve to bring the average medium profits of farms right down hence distorting the figures

I suspect the ones getting upset ( other then the 8 # mega farmers owned by eg Dyson) are the 12% of medium farmers whose output is £120,000 to 250,000. It’s about 12% of farmers and many of those will still be below the 3 million IHT threshold.
There profits will be a lot larger and they can afford 20% IHT with interest free payback.

1 Many farmers have said they prefer lifestyle to chasing profit

2 Only the mega farmers and a few of the larger farms will be caught by the IHT changes - rightfully so

3 There are an awful lot of small farming units - 41% that have output so low it’s almost hobby farming and they being farm income averages right down and skew figures.

4 Some farmers are convinced it’s a mega corporation / Blackrock plot to put control of food into the hands of investment companies.
However these large units ie 8% of farms produce over 50% of output on just over 30%’of land so are more efficient and therefore have cheaper output costs which actually help the UK population as it keeps food prices down. It’s a bit like people having to shop from small shops as opposed to large Aldi or Lidls etc. Middle sized farmers openly admit to not chasing the output as they prefer to have the lifestyle - which does not help the population of the UK as if they suppress output it drives up prices.

Clearly at some point there will be a rationalisation of farm land as to have 41% of farms producing less than 25,000 each to output is not sustainable.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/601041de8fa8f5654da17c26/fbs-evidencepack-28jan21.pdf

My source of information.

He won’t be on CHC funding via the NHS it will be social care. He won’t fit with the domains.

I was amazed at the exemption to the social care clawback and they leave earnings untouched. I discovered this whilst prepping to get his expenditures offset to get rid off his social care bill. At present we are funding educational and physical activities which exceed his pip so he has no claw back from social care but we had to argue for it.

The whole thing is a torturous journey of rules and regulations which are not simple. You have to read through pages of exemptions and schedules from the social cafe and welfare care peope which adds to the burden of being a carer. Nothing is offered on a plate and you have to know all the rules and argue for them. I’m not sure that an average paid carer will cope so for instance educational activities that offer improvements reduces the social care clawback. Also health benefits if they have physical issues .

Here’s an illustration

im a wealthy banker and I decide to buy a farm worth say 2 million pounds whilst having my large pension and also other investments in AIM stock.

Pre budget

My 1 million pounds in AIM shares ISA would go tax free to beneficiaries

My 4 million pound farm land would go tax free to beneficiaries

My 2 million pound house would incur £400,000 IHT

My pension of 1 million pounds would have gone tax free to beneficiaries

Before Labour 8 million pounds given for £500,000
IHT.

How can that be right?

Me hoping to leave my son a tiny proportion of that pays IHT!

Make the farm worth 4 million.

I agree. When I worked at a supported housing service the residents had more disposible income than I did working there on minimum wage. I don't begrudge this at all and think good state support should be available to all.

Which means taxing those who can afford it, which includes large inherited estates. Trying to avoid this is essentially taking money from the communal pot and saying you think you/your children deserve better at the expense of others.

Things have changed as the supported living costs have increased a lot I have been told.

I think it will boil down to how independent you are on supported living

If you need a PA that’s not good as you will have social care claw back and PA expenses.

If you can live in supported with no PA you will have more money.

The amount of disposable income for 2 people living just off UC and PIP can be vastly different so knowing Jo bloggs who does ok doesn’t really help.As things stand DS will needs both supported living and PA support.

To be honest, I don’t think I’ll ever understand your argument @Noras.

Your attitude to various things is so far from my experience and understanding of being a SEN parent.

• I would never, ever, refer to him as a burden. Certainly not on a public forum. The “burden of care” is your responsibility, you’re his parent.

• Same for all the sacrifices we make as SEN parents. Tough shit, it’s part of bringing them up.

• Linking his challenges to whether he looks tidy is disgraceful. The disabled people you see who look less put together deserve support too, and the way you describe them is awful. Have you considered they might not care what you think, or that you should be less judgemental?

• Nobody is suggesting disabled people don’t deserve holidays - they’re saying it’s not up to the public to pay for it. While your aim is to ensure your son can still claim benefits and also inherit from your estate - the public are unnecessarily funding your child’s life style. I’ve got a disabled child too, he also deserves a holiday, but not out of public funds when he has his own.

There is no link between farmers and disabled kids. As others have said, this isn’t a race to the bottom.

We could all play the pity me card, and complain someone else has more. Plan as best you can, give him the best you can without expecting the tax payer to subsidise someone who has £300k in the bank, and stop thinking someone is in poverty because they don’t get their hair cut as often as you’d like. That isn’t poverty.

I agree.

The council should be the ones providing a care package based on a needs assessment. The amount of support your son gets would then be based on his needs and should also involve some 1:1, even if this isn't always needed, so that they get more personalised time. I don't know if it is common for those in supported living to have a PA, as there is no need. The support they need should be provided by the care package.

I'd also be interested to hear what setup those other members of this group have where they are being faced with paying increased rent. That would suggest they have more than £6,000 in savings or similar for it not to be fully covered.

Yes, I fully get that, you seem to have fallen into that black hole where you're screwed either way. You own your house so have to maintain it and pay for those costs. Yet if you sold it you'd be burning all the money away until you fall under the threshold for having care costs taken care of etc. And let's not even get into where they'd expect you to live. Private rentals aren't great for those on benefits. Council is a nightmare with the waiting lists. Would you qualify for supported or sheltered? But even then you've got all this money that you then have to lose. Urgh. Again, I'm sorry you're in this position.

@Fairydust6 I'm really sorry, urgh, that all sounded so negative. And yet I'm still not finding anything positive to offer. So many gaps in the system.

I’ve always said it’s the middle that get screwed.

If you’re able work, you keep your income. In our position, our son is so severely disabled he gets CHC funding, so nothing is taken from him. The middle are unfortunately shafted.

I’m sorry you’re in that position.

@Fairydust6 Might your local Citizens Advice Bureau be able to signpost? There might be local or national organisations that have experience with situations like yours? Sometimes you don't know about what's out there until you hear somehow through a long grapevine. It varies so much from county to county. Sorry, just trying to find something to help.