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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that parents cannot leave money to severely disabled offspring free of IHT

335 replies

Noras · 22/11/2024 04:17

Frankly I have been quite upset about farmers kicking up a fuss about IHT when they can transfer 3 million pounds of wealth IHT free and after that it only costs 20% which can be paid over a decade interest free.

As a parent of a disabled adult child I can only transfer one million pounds like anyone else and any unpaid IHT has to be paid over 10 years with 7% interest due.

We have other kids and can’t exclude them from our wills so that eats into the IHT allowance.

My son will struggle to work in any form of paid job.

I was discussing his placement in supported living with a social worker yesterday as a pretty likely destination

His life will inevitably be one of benefits eg universal credit and PIP

We have left % more to him due to his profound needs.

Our combined estate will face IHT charges especially with the fiscal drag.

So through no fault of my son he will live in relative poverty except for what is left after IHT into a vulnerable persons trust.

My son is used to nicer things eg holidays/ clothes etc and has some awareness of his current nicer life style even if he is not that driven by material things.

We would have to deprive ourselves of a decent retirement to ensure he is decently provided for,

I am heart broken to have given birth to someone who will live in relative poverty assuming he has a long life and the monies inherited have to cover say 45/50 years.

I am not the only parent waking up at 3am in fear of their kid’s future it’s a well known thing about parents of kids with disability.

AIBU to think that the Government should allow an IHT allowance for dependants who are classed as high needs eg PIP high or mid levels eg not really able to live independently etc? I can’t believe that they make no allowance in IHT terms for the disabled. As it is his care and needs have been an additional expense to us throughout his life eg 1:1 swimming lessons ,Ed Psych reports, SALT, private OT , personal trainers etc. This always exceeds disability benefits.

OP posts:
ShinyBinLid · 23/11/2024 22:27

Ph3 · 23/11/2024 22:25

And as I have said this is an outdated law that was created to prevent the aristocracy to continue to hold on to the land. It’s not my job to come up with solutions. That’s the job of politicians and leaders - that’s what your taxes pays - solutions for the cost of living. What I do know is many other countries (such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Portugal, Singapore) don’t have this tax and manage. There are many reforms required in the UK tax system in my opinion - this being one of them.

Edited

Fair enough. But I think it's a bit disingenuous to complain about something without suggesting an alternative.

Ph3 · 23/11/2024 22:37

ShinyBinLid · 23/11/2024 22:27

Fair enough. But I think it's a bit disingenuous to complain about something without suggesting an alternative.

How is is it disingenuous? I have provided an opinion and elaborated on why I thought it. I didn’t do so in a backhanded way, or trying to confuse the subject. I simply stated my opinion. Which is just that my opinion. I wasn’t even complaining I understood why the OP didn’t think it fair specifically under her circumstances. Not sure where this was disingenuous but again you are entitled to your opinion.

eebytat · 23/11/2024 23:28

We have an adopted disabled child and live on £24k and carers allowance/DLA. I have an emergency pot so no UC. I was a high earner and since becoming a carer have earned very little. I feel you are in a much more privileged position than most people and our situation is certainly ‘not fair’ especially as we didn’t even get maternity pay or allowance due to being self employed. Yep, for some inexplicable reason adopted self employed parents are ‘exempt’ from maternity allowance. Feel on balance we have a lot more than you to be aggrieved about but I don’t necessarily feel it’s the state’s responsibility to fund us, we just have to compromise and plan well.

Noras · 24/11/2024 01:06

I have sacrificed my earning potential, my happiness and my future pension to care for my son.

No more. I told social care that I’m working so this is what that means. It means that an agency will provide social care at £25 per hour instead of me at £81 per week carers allowance. I can now save for a pension and also work to get back my self respect that has been lost in the years of caring.

People have hit the nail on the head. Life as a disabled person is a lot more expensive. Just engaging the PA you have expenses as everything is double. Public transport is often inaccessible. As an example of an expense my DS just seems to break things when he tries to do something eg clean.

I realise that people here think that disabled people should live in a box, never have holidays and pretty much have no quality of life as some sort of punishment for daring to be disabled. It’s frankly disturbing and also frankly there is karma so be careful what you wish for.

Disabled people are not those who choose not to work. Many would absolutely love to work but we have such an awful society that does not want to engage with them or they might get extremely low paid work with support. I’m not talking about a whizz with Alzheimer’s who’s someone’s cousin or nephew, I’m talking about my son who will walk down a street gesturing to himself and talking to himself and occasionally might bang his head on a wall. I don’t want to see him dressed in shabby clothes frankly he has enough issues without looking less acceptable in dress. I would like him to look smart with short hair etc

Where should the money come from. So called working people are taxed to the hilt. I recognise that I have to contribute and at my advanced age made numerous application and have secured work. If wages and earning cannot be taxed enough then next it will be capital. So how shall that fall? People who have straightforward inheritances are losing their family homes in the South as the value exceeds the IHT thresholds. They are proportionately poorer as 30 years ago that exact same house would not have been subject to IHT it could have remained the family home. Everyone is being taxed more except the uber rich.

As for farmers,8% of all farmers are responsible for over 50% of all output from farms and own 38% of all farm land in the UK. These are huge mega estates that pay zero tax. The middle earning farmers are described by their own ‘union’ the NFU as life style farmers ie not chasing the profits. They often have other interests eg employment of the farm or their activities eg farm shops, camp sites, bed and breakfast etc. These are not my words.

There are a significant number of farmers - over one third who barely produce any output and I’m nor even sure why they bother. There little bits of land will most likely be exempt from IHt

I’m sure that the wealthy farmers have whipped up a storm with the NFU who under Tory rule were insider lobbyists. They are the ones encouraging the protests and the spread of misinformation, half the farmers on their one portal had no ideas that the IHT could be paid over 10 years interest free for example. Inflation will erode that debt to very little unless you are one of the above huge mega farmers.

Also we have the uber rich corporations. How much tax does Facebook pay and yet how many today have seen adverts on Facebook Instagram and other social media? All that advertising revenue now completely lost to the UK because successive governments lack the desire to tax where the advert is shown. There’s big money in government and watch ex minister secure lucrative positions on the board.

So yes there are decisions to be made.

If asked on a bad day, my son would ask you to allow him to die but that option is not even allowed by the State who just wants to keep the disabled in some form of controlled poverty. Also the people here who think thst my son should never have a holiday or any fun because he is a burden to the state.

In an ideal World they would have their one villages with their own little shops, entertainment and community where they could live safely and those that could work a bit could run the shops, the pub with support. There is so much that should be done and maybe if the Uber rich were taxed it could happen.

When my son was a toddler and I heard the news that he was significantly disabled for a day I wanted to walk with him in front of a bus. I was shivering and scared and a lovely lady from his nursery took me in and gave me a cup of tea and made an emergency call to the GP who tried to reassure me that things would not necessarily be that bad.

But they are that bad because the people here don’t want the disabled to have decent lives. They don’t want the disabled to have a holiday, a meal out or whatever, they want them incarcerated in some rubbish hole not costing much until they die. Well great but the same might come back to you when you get dementia and your funds run out - hopefully you will go to some third rate hell hole of a care home. The reality is that the wealthier of the OAP’s get to stay in the nicer care homes because they paid for a while so the state allows them to remain. How many of you will give away money to your kids to avoid care home fees. How many of you will set up some sort of trust or ensure at the house is held as tenants in common to avoid care home fees. Probably the same people who begrudge a disabled person a holiday but want the state to pay for their care when older. millions signed the various campaigns in papers like the Daily Mail for free social care for the elderly!

They are the ones who campaigned to ask the state not to take their houses when they finally need care. However at least that care is just for the last few years and not a lifetime of misery and dependancy with abject poverty, At least they have had some sort of decent life before dementia or Parkinson’s struck,

When I thought about that bus as it approached me all I could think of was “ We are the bad one”. I felt rubbish for having a rubbish son who would drag down the family.

The biggest irony is that the lovely lady who rescued me, her husband died under a bus a few years later and she herself died of cancer. So trust me all the thoughts I had that day have been justified because people are frankly despicable and nasty until it happens to them, luckily I met an angel that day. Be warned the likelihood is you will need care one day and it will cost £80,000 per annum and many of you ( the same ones who begrudged a disabled person a holiday) would seek advice to for instance shield assets from social services eg with some form of trust or by severing a joint tenancy or by making life time gifts to adult kids. That’s why I think there is so much hypocrisy.

OP posts:
Tangerinenets · 24/11/2024 01:14

My severely disabled son gets around £186 UC per week plus £300 per month mobility and has to pay £156.00 per week towards his care. So we still financially support him even though he doesn’t live at home because he does a lot if activities which he needs. We are looking at a discretionary trust for him through Mencap. I haven’t looked too deeply into IHT side of things but will now!

Noras · 24/11/2024 01:21

eebytat · 23/11/2024 23:28

We have an adopted disabled child and live on £24k and carers allowance/DLA. I have an emergency pot so no UC. I was a high earner and since becoming a carer have earned very little. I feel you are in a much more privileged position than most people and our situation is certainly ‘not fair’ especially as we didn’t even get maternity pay or allowance due to being self employed. Yep, for some inexplicable reason adopted self employed parents are ‘exempt’ from maternity allowance. Feel on balance we have a lot more than you to be aggrieved about but I don’t necessarily feel it’s the state’s responsibility to fund us, we just have to compromise and plan well.

I’m not sure how relevant your comment is. You have carers allowance like me and also I assume that one of you is working. We are no different. My husband and I most certainly don’t claim UC as we have too much income. I don’t begrudge my own situation whatsoever other than I think that carers allowance is rubbish but I’m not alone and most agencies are campaigning on this point. I also think that there should be more social care to help both parents to stay in employment. sadly social care and SEN education is shockingly poor. I believe that productivity would be improved if carers could be supported to work more.

I did get maternity pay but then I did contribute heavily to the state before my son was born. Annoying I have lost my £50 SERPs due or the new state pension.

Im talking about my son as an adult and not my own situation. I’m aggrieved about the suggestion that your adopted disabled son and my own son should always live in abject poverty with no treats eg holidays, some nice clothes when you die as a punishment for being disabled. I’m not talking about the situation of the parents.

OP posts:
Noras · 24/11/2024 01:23

Tangerinenets · 24/11/2024 01:14

My severely disabled son gets around £186 UC per week plus £300 per month mobility and has to pay £156.00 per week towards his care. So we still financially support him even though he doesn’t live at home because he does a lot if activities which he needs. We are looking at a discretionary trust for him through Mencap. I haven’t looked too deeply into IHT side of things but will now!

Yes it’s all expensive we are still supporting our adult son, Have you asked for an assessment of his social care bill as some of the activities or expenditure could be deducted from the care bill as opposed to the notional sum. We went though it item by item.

OP posts:
Ph3 · 24/11/2024 01:30

OP please don’t listen to those that think that disabled people don’t deserve a life. Of course they do. They deserve as much as everyone else. And don’t let people make you feel bad for claiming any sort of benefits. You have worked and contributed and that’s what our taxes are for. To help those who needed it to live a decent life. I completely understand your frustration. Carers of any kind are underpaid and under appreciated.

Tangerinenets · 24/11/2024 01:39

Noras · 24/11/2024 01:23

Yes it’s all expensive we are still supporting our adult son, Have you asked for an assessment of his social care bill as some of the activities or expenditure could be deducted from the care bill as opposed to the notional sum. We went though it item by item.

I haven’t yet. He’s been CHC funded for the last 7 years so didn’t have to pay a contribution but is now joint funded . I’ve appealed that decision twice and plan to keep on appealing just to pee them off 😂. The financial assessment has only just completed but I’m going to get my ducks in a row and get receipts etc together and ask for that.

notanothernamechange24 · 24/11/2024 01:43

@Noras you have been told repeatedly on the other thread about why you are talking utter rubbish about farmers.

I appreciate your situation but this isn't a race to the fucking bottom! You need to get some decent financial advice and be grateful to be able to leave anything to your children! Lots don't have that and even more won't if this ludicrous budget goes through.

Noras · 24/11/2024 01:46

Ph3 · 24/11/2024 01:30

OP please don’t listen to those that think that disabled people don’t deserve a life. Of course they do. They deserve as much as everyone else. And don’t let people make you feel bad for claiming any sort of benefits. You have worked and contributed and that’s what our taxes are for. To help those who needed it to live a decent life. I completely understand your frustration. Carers of any kind are underpaid and under appreciated.

Thanks. Personally I have claimed only carers allowance and that was in the last few years. Mostly I did not claim it for years due to guilt although someone said that if DH and I divorced I would be in a terrible position. I just wanted all oaths I to go away and it to be a horrible nightmare,

People seem to be attacking me for my DS figure which is odd .Seemingly in their view me and DS who is an adult are linked somehow - I wonder if they take any financial responsibility for their own adult kids especially if any of their adult kids dare claim UC or child benefit which seemingly by their definition is some sort of scrounging and means that their adult kids most certainly should not have holidays if they have to have income topped up by UC. What about their adult kids who salary sacrifice into pensions to claim free nursery care or avoid the £100,000 - 60 % tax cliff edge etc? What about the salary sacrifice to claim child benefit. How many of your adult kids do that?

I am not my adult son.

OP posts:
labamba007 · 24/11/2024 02:27

I am no expert in IHT, but isn't the whole concept unfair? To pay tax on something that someone has already paid tax on? Would it not be best to argue for zero IHT rather than equal rights to farmers?

Picpac876 · 24/11/2024 03:05

I must admit reading this thread has me slightly confused. I have two relatives with severe disabilities and who have had no family financial contributions and yet are able to afford a decent lifestyle and wouldn't be seen to be living in poverty. Annual holiday, regular haircuts, meals out once a week and coffees etc. One of these being a sibling in a supported living shared accommodation with constant staff presence, the other living in a property themselves with 24/7 1:1. Because they're not able to work they have means tested benefits in addition to PIP. The local council pays for the care and accommodation with a small contribution and then from their benefits they pay the bills and for all other costs.

In fact my sibling had his means tested benefits cut off temporarily as he'd saved too much. Last year he went on an overseas holiday for a week with a 1:1 carer and he pays for various activities, meals out and coffee shop visits, along with a new laptop every few years and tablet. Taxis where necessary, if no driver on duty. I don't begrudge him this at all, as it does come with many limitations, but I definitely wouldn't say he lives in abject poverty.

In many respects he's more financially secure than other mildy disabled family members who have very limited qualifications and struggle to get a job above minimum wage and haven't been on holiday since before covid. They have enough to get by, but require family support financially.

I think my sibling with the more severe disabilities has a better life in supported living. Support workers whose jobs are literally there to support him, whether that be through cooking assistance, laundry guidance, supporting him with social activities and food shopping. He's become more independent and had so many more opportunities. Back when he lived at home he wasn't able to go on holiday or out as much, as there just wasn't the funding or support.

halloumidippers · 24/11/2024 03:29

How many of you will set up some sort of trust or ensure at the house is held as tenants in common to avoid care home fees. Probably the same people who begrudge a disabled person a holiday but want the state to pay for their care when older. millions signed the various campaigns in papers like the Daily Mail for free social care for the elderly!

But... @Noras this is not what your thread is asking. You Lee asking for the government to make changes to the law for an exemption for you. Many people have suggested you take advantage of those same loopholes to plan efficiently.

Fairydust6 · 24/11/2024 04:28

This reply has been withdrawn

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

CrazyAndSagittarius · 24/11/2024 04:48

You need you speak to a financial adviser and start planning for your disabled child's future now.

However your situation has nothing to do with the issue for farmers which is nothing ti do with "wealthy people not paying taxes" which is what you imply, and all to do with the nation's food security. IHT will see farms being broken up and sold off in order to pay it, rather than the farm being passed down to younger generations to continue farming. It's a terrible policy for that reason alone. We need to support farming as being able to produce our own food is vital for the nation. Farmers have been struggling for years with supermarkets driving down their prices and they rely on subsidies. They are generally income poor and asset rich. If you put more pressure on them, they will sell up and leave farming. We need to support our farmers, not make things harder for them.

Unfortunately there are wealthy people using the farm exemption as a way of tax avoidance which is why this has been done. But labour need to find a way to do this without penalising "real" farmers. Our food security is too important.

Coffeeloverme · 24/11/2024 05:18

Ph3 · 23/11/2024 20:50

So you think it’s fair people being taxed effectively twice?

If there’s no inheritance tax working people will be taxed more. As far as the recipients of wills go it’s unearned wealth. I’d rather this is taxed than those struggling on average/below average incomes be taxed which would be the alternative. Services have to be paid for and just better off people paying income tax is no where near sufficient, Much of the money paid through inheritance tax (not talking about farmers) is because of the advantages the baby boom generation had in house buying ie the relative ease that was achieved and the house price increases. Significant amounts are not subject to iht (should be less imo) and that increases the unevenness and unfairness of our society. To me inheritance tax is no brainer.

Picpac876 · 24/11/2024 05:19

This reply has been deleted

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

Sure, but that's only got to cover his food, bills and then anything extra. Per week, and that's just for him. Are you also including the mobility allowance that isn't factored into the care contribution? Covid meant that he saved quite a lot as wasn't able to spend on anything other than food shop and bills. It was after that that he did manage to afford a holiday in Europe, as he saved quite a lot over that year or two. They didn't go out for a lot of Covid except on walks. He rarely buys clothes and doesn't go anywhere fancy for those or for eating out. He goes swimming weekly and to a few different activities, but again, they tend to be minimal cost. It probably also helps that he shares his accommodation with 2 other young adults.

My other relative is in a different set up and her care funded through CHC. So I don't know the details there. I think she is fairly careful with costs, but again not unable to afford meals out or a short break once a year. Nothing fancy like going abroad or Michelin Star cuisine, but enough to live well and even have her own dog.

Yes, it is a limit, that unless you get very lucky you aren't going to be able to have things like your own property or even a substantial amount of assets or a brand new car that you own. But it's not guaranteed to be a life of total poverty with holes in your shoes where you can never afford to eat out. I know for some it can be, higher living costs in some areas, potential for additional costs due to health issues and mental health knock ons etc.

Fairydust6 · 24/11/2024 05:26

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penelopelady · 24/11/2024 05:29

Provety is hard on everyone and many people with disabilities have to live in poverty also through no fault of their own. I do get it I have two sons in the same boat, you need proper financial advice, most my friends in this situation put the money in a trust which then doesn't affect the persons ability to claim universal credit.

Obviously there are changes at the minute with tax but you need to get advice and like me realise that we are fortunate to have this issue.

Picpac876 · 24/11/2024 05:30

This reply has been deleted

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

My siblings isn't, his is council funded. But yeah, the CHC funding route for the other relative was brutal. It was only through social care intervention when she was in an elderly care home not even having the support provided to be able to do anything except watch TV. I'd hate to have been in that position in my 20s and I'd hate for anybody else to have to go through that. No winners for anybody there.

Picpac876 · 24/11/2024 05:43

This reply has been deleted

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

I am sorry though to hear that you're struggling with it. I hope things get better for you. There are some charities which provide grants for holidays and the like, but then you have all the practicalities of actually getting there etc. I hope there's at least some good support for you in your local area.

Fairydust6 · 24/11/2024 06:08

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BIossomtoes · 24/11/2024 07:20

labamba007 · 24/11/2024 02:27

I am no expert in IHT, but isn't the whole concept unfair? To pay tax on something that someone has already paid tax on? Would it not be best to argue for zero IHT rather than equal rights to farmers?

Had you bothered to read the thread you’d know double taxation on inheritance is a myth. Most IHT liability is because of property price inflation and that money has never been taxed. In taxation terms it’s virgin money. Added to which we pay tax on previously taxed money all the time - VAT, fuel duty, alcohol duty is all paid from income which has been subject to tax and NI.

labamba007 · 24/11/2024 07:32

@BIossomtoes why so arsey? I've said I have very little understanding of it (my parents have nothing so it's not something I have considered). In which case, do you only pay IHT on money that has not been taxed is that how it works?

So my parents buy house for 500k and it's now come to me and worth one million, so the IHT amount is only applicable to the extra 500k?

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