Was I really in the wrong?

[MammaKel]

Hi All,

We're currently on holiday at disneyland paris with two sen toddlers.

It's snowing today so both toddlers had 3 layers on top, two on bottom and two pairs of socks, a snowsuit, a coat and wellies.

The younger one has sensory issues especially with her head and hands, so I battled with her to keep her hat and gloves on whilst in the snow.

We went to a restaurant and sat outside, protected from the snow but was still outside and the younger one threw her hat and gloves off and started having a melt down. Unfortunately with her melt downs, you have to give her a minute to regulate her emotions or she ends up more distressed, throwing herself and eventually makes herself sick.

As awful as it looks, ignoring her for a couple of minutes works best (after many trials of trying to comfort her etc).

So whilst my DH was collecting the food, I was with both toddlers whilst she was having a melt down, I kept watching her to make sure she was safe in her pram etc and wasn't hurting herself when a man shouted over asking me if she was okay and I said yes, she just needs a minute and his partner interrupted and said I better get her hat and gloves on and I replied saying she's autistic, she has sensory issues and before we go back outside ill put them back on (before she pulls them off again) and she shook her head saying I was upsetting her (the woman) by neglecting my child.

I apologised for and said I'm doing my best and I'm sorry it's upsetting to her and she turned away and I can hear them call me basically and then DH came back, toddler stopped having a melt down and asked for some chips.

We live up north and this was the first time we've taken her out in extreme weather and I didn't know she wouldn't wear a hat or gloves but she was definitely warm enough, I put enough layers on.

I just don't know what else I could have done in that situation, after we ate we came back to the hotel immediately due to the weather and her refusing to wear gloves and a hat.

I love both my children and really do try my best but now I'm wondering if every stranger thinks I'm the worst mum in the world.

I'm not saying the couple was wrong to call me out, if they genuinely thought a child was being neglected then I'd rather someone say something but I just feel a bit deflated and like crap really.

They were rude.

As far as I know my son isn't SEN but as a toddler he will often pull his hat off, even when it's snowing.

A woman once shouted 'get a hat on him!!' at me in the park, after I had spent about 10 mins battling to get him to keep it on. It got my back up at the time, but having spoken with a lot of my friends they've had similar experiences with busy bodies who feel at liberty to comment on a snapshot of parenting when they have absolutely no idea of the full picture.

Don't give it any more headspace.

I’ve had this happen with my sen child too OP, they were definitely in the wrong. Just forget it.

I agree. There was nothing you could do except wait for it to pass. Which it did. Just don't give it another thought.

I don't understand why you'd sit outside in cold weather with two toddlers. As the mother of an autistic child, I do suggest you start to make reasonable rules around when things have to be done and when they do not. You can start to introduce this now.

My son for example strongly preferred shorts all year round. However, if a little Black/poor/single parent family boy turns up to school regularly in shorts, the social services will be informed regardless of his SEN. We don't get to take our little ones out in a TuTu because they're "hot" or we want them to have "autonomy". So we had to make a rule - if the weather man says that it's above 20c then he can wear shorts. Even if I think it's a "cold 20c". If it's below then he doesn't.

When he was too young to reason with at all, this told me when I have to be firm myself and follow through with ensuring he wore trousers despite any meltdowns. We are here to parent our kids and yes it is harder for us in many ways. Regardless, our kids needs parents and learning appropriate clothing is a life skill.

You see, my son will get to the point of mild hypothermia and not even realise he's cold. It's a sensory issue that puts him at risk of ill health.

Just ignore what other people say/think.
I wouldn’t have taken a child to Disney if they suffer from feeling overwhelmed. I think that’s a brave move on your part! Just own your choices and ignore other people.

Nice lecture. Do you not think the OP knows here children better than randoms on the internet ?

Dont take it personally thats just the french for you. I worked as a nanny for a French family and they wrap their kids up to the point of it being ridiculous. In the summer mu boss used to put a vest in my baby charge. She'd be absolutely sweating her arse off.

I think it's more a cultural thing then a judgement on your parenting thing.

Don't let them upset you. My kids (both adopted under age2) had major sensory issues when toddlers. Now age 9 and 10 they have quietened down.
Coming back from holiday the first time we took them abroad my daughter had a major meltdown as the toilets at Manchester airport had banks of very loud automatic hand dryers. She hated the noise and got scared and I ended up lying on the floor just slightly away from one of the luggage carousels hugging and rocking her. Looks from other parents were disgusting and I ended up shouting at one man who would not stop staring.
Don't let them see even if they do upset you. It's obvious they think about themselves first and not others. Well done for handling it and I hope you have an amazing time with them at Disney.

You did nothing wrong.

Mine are NT and this could've happened with them, regularly refuse to wear gloves, get cold hands, cry about cold hands.

Then come spring when the weather brightens they suddenly want to wear gloves everywhere. 🤦

Ignore the woman, you're grand.

I teach in an SEN school and several of the kids as they get older refuse to wear shoes, even in the snow. I love my job and find it so rewarding but I feel very sad for the parents who put up with this kind of judgement when going about their everyday lives. I know these children and could list so many amazing things about them yet strangers see a snapshot and feel compelled to stare or give their judgy advice. One parent I worked with many years ago made a little card up and when members of the public were rude or made comments and she handed them one. I thought this was a great idea, she didn’t enter into conversation just passed them a little card and used it as a teaching moment.

You maybe should have followed your own advice… offer to help or say nothing at all. The last part of your comment you should of just said nothing at all

Not a lecture, just parenting advice from someone who also has an autistic child and has had to learn to still be a parent to them despite challenges.

Giving her the benefit of doubt, she way have witnessed neglect/been neglected as a child. Also older generations are very focused on gloves.

You parent your autistic child, and weren’t asked for advice about whether OP should have sat outdoors with her kids.

Did you find unsolicited advice phrased as a critical question helpful when you were learning about your child’s needs?

I didn’t, I found it destabilizing and upsetting but even with ignoring advice from people who don’t know my children’s needs I still managed to parent my kids successfully into adulthood as I’m sure OP will.

Sitting outside with inappropritely clothed young children is a poor parenting decision that will make you appear incompetent. I'm.trying to help the OP by ensuring she appears to seem like she has some control of her children and can competently parent them even when they say "no".

They should not have been outside if OP couldn't even get them to keep their warm clothes on. They should have been inside. Rules and standards need to be developed irrespective of an autism diagnosis. It's how people achieve their potential.

You develop standards by having guidelines and expectations. That's why I suggested something like what I had for my son so the decision is made by someone other than the child or the parent. It's snowing? Then we have our hats and gloves on or we stay inside. Thems the rules. End of.

God you sound fun!

Your son wants to wear shorts every day, but you have a rule that he can’t wear them unless it’s over 20 degrees? I hope for your son’s sake you don’t live in the UK then.

Some school uniforms specify shorts, and while not everyone would want to wear shorts at 2 degrees (although my totally neurotypical son would have and did), what possible harm could come to your child from wearing shorts at 18 degrees? Or 15? Or even 10?

You should respect the fact that different people have different comfortable temperatures and don’t impose your own preferences on others.

Exactly, have this ready for a next time.People with neurotypical dc love to judge. Don’t apologise because you were doing what works for your child! I’d have been a lot ruder than you. You were very restrained!

did you sit outside for a reason?
so you could smoke?

They are your rules, set by you and if they work for your child that’s great. But your rules will not work for every child.

For some kids, wearing hat and gloves is torturous, sometimes they need quiet space not a busy restaurant, sometimes they need to lie on the floor and scream because everything is too much. Treating a child so inflexibly when you’re all learning about their neurodiversity can be incredibly unhelpful and have a long term negative impact.

OP is in the process of learning about her child, she doesn’t need people telling her what she’s doing wrong by someone who doesn’t know their child or circumstances. As a general suggestion, it’s not advice if you’re using word like inappropriate and incompetent.

It's inappropriate for the weather and I'd be reported to social services. One of the first things that every professional my son sees just because he is autistic they comment on his appearance in terms of whether he looks well nourished, whether he was appropriately dressed for the weather and if he had any signs of physical abuse. We don't have any social serives involvement at all and never have, he's only been through the assessment and intervention process for autistic children. Still it seems a pretty standard part of their assessment.

When you are in a disadvantaged demographic, you are also more likely to be referred to safeguarding for things like that. For instance, my son had a problem that required surgery to fix and until he had the surgery, it affected his attendance. School referred me to the LEA. I was speaking to another mum about it and she revealed that her daughter has lower attendance than he had but they've never mentioned it to her as they understand about her tonsils and that she's declined surgery so it is unlikely to improve. They don't pressure her to do work while she is off sick or anything whereas the plan with my son was that I had to collect work for him (he was in year 1).

I'm a white unmarried (but not single) mother to a mixed race autistic child who works in a supermarket. The other mother is white, married, has her own company and a homeowner. It's obvious why they feel my child was "at risk" and hers wasn't.

All humans are affected by cold weather. Having basic rules like appropriate clothes for the weather is how you start to encourage competent independence. It's the difference between someone who has the ability to live independently but was never given the reasoning skills to do so and someone who is given those tools at an appropriate time.

Neurodiversity doesn't mean not human. They'll still freeze, they just won't feel it.

Yes, and a swig of vodka whilst I was at it /s.

They only had seating outside, and we were getting something to eat.

Sorry, I'm just reading through the comments now, and I'd just like to mention she was dressed appropriately for the weather. She had layers on, a snowsuit, and a coat - she just wouldn't wear her hat or gloves.

DS isn't autistic but runs hot, he will often take off gloves/hat. I had similar last winter sitting outside a café, he was wearing thermals top and bottom, trousers, long sleeve top, thick borg lined jumper and a coat. A woman told me off for him not having gloves on, he was even holding a paper cup of warm milk. The child wasn't cold. I told her that, she insisted, I asked if she would like to come and feel his sweaty back to reassure her, DS piped up ,"it is really sweaty!!" . I then turned away and carried on drinking my coffee. People need to mind their own business.

My children are grown up now and I wish I had the confidence back then to know what I found out over the years.

You know your child better than anyone. You know what is best. And it was proven in this situation.

Trust your own judgement and find a polite way of telling others to stay in their lane.

Some people would do well to remember what Dr Stephen Shore once said.
“When you meet one person with Autism, you’ve met one person with Autism”. This is a popular quote that highlights how Autism is very diverse. What works for your child/partner/friend etc doesn't work for all people with autism.