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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Should people who don’t celebrate Christmas get to have it off work?

372 replies

Username638 · 21/11/2024 06:59

Might be a controversial topic, I’m not sure. I work in a small team and there always has to be at least two people in over Christmas. One of the people does not celebrate Christmas due to their religion. They get a week or two off earlier in the year for Eid. Now that it has come to deciding who is having what time off for Christmas, the colleague who doesn’t celebrate it has said he might go for a trip away. I find this unfair really because he has already had his celebration and his time off work. It was a given, he didn’t need to fight over holidays, he just was granted the time off (which is fine obviously, that’s not the issue. I’m just saying he has already had his celebration and now it’s ours).

I don’t think there should be any rules in place that he can’t have any time off over Xmas because I do think it would be unfair and not right. But I just would’ve hoped that he would make the decision off his own back to work Xmas eve, Xmas day and Boxing Day so that those who celebrate it can have it off. I feel like it’s common decency? I did ask what he is up to for Xmas a few weeks ago and he said nothing as he doesn’t celebrate it. But now he’s decided he might go away for the whole week of Christmas and I just find it selfish tbh.

OP posts:
Fluufer · 21/11/2024 13:40

Username638 · 21/11/2024 13:21

Thanks for the responses everyone. It’s good to get others perspectives and opinions.

I did try to change my title after I first posted this but it wouldn’t let me. Because it looks like I’m asking whether people who don’t celebrate Christmas should be ALLOWED by the company time off over that period, and that’s absolutely not what I’m asking. But that’s on me for wording it that way. I am in agreement with everyone who says that my colleague is entitled to have whatever days off he wants, and my Xmas holidays don’t trump his. I in no way, shape, or form think that he should have his holiday declined. I was only hoping that he would let someone else have the day/s seeing as he doesn’t care about the holiday.

I work closely with my colleague, we talk to each other about our lives and plans etc and at first I asked him what he’s up to over Xmas (at this point I assumed he would try to take time off over Xmas) but then he told me that as he doesn’t celebrate it and it’s just a normal day for him that he won’t be doing anything. Then a few weeks later he asked the manager in a team meeting whether he could have the week of Xmas off. My manager responded by saying it shouldn’t be a problem but don’t put in any holidays yet as he needs to send the rota. Afterwards, I asked him about this and he said he decided that instead of taking the time off and being bored over Xmas, he may as well go away. This now means that someone who is looking forward to Christmas, wants to spend time with their children etc has to miss out on a day/s of fun and food and tradition and family time etc. it’s clear to me by what he has said that Christmas is not important to him. I would feel the same if he was white or non religious or whatever, if someone has expressed that they aren’t bothered about something, and someone else IS bothered about it, surely it is the decent thing to do to let the person who IS bothered have it? I am not saying he doesn’t deserve it, I’m not saying he should have less time off or his time off doesn’t matter. I am very aware and in agreement that he is entitled to time off over Xmas. But asking to take the whole week off at a time that is very important to other people, when it’s meaningless to you is in my opinion selfish, and not a team player. If you think otherwise, that’s fine, I posted here to get other peoples opinions and a lot of people have made some fair points.

I couldn’t have added all of that into the body of my post because it’d be long and no one would read it, so I just said the gist. But people are calling me racist and things now when it’s nothing at all to do with that. It’s just about being considerate and kind to other people

Edited

I still don't understand why you think it's so unfair. Why didn't the rest of you put in AL requests if it were so important to you? Is the rota actually unfair and he's getting special treatment, or does it just span multiple years and everyone gets the same chances? Just like Eid, does he actually get special treatment, or is he just the only one putting the request in?
You really can't dictate which bank holidays someone takes off because they are Muslim. I know you've now said it's not because he's Muslim, but it has been central to your argument thus far....
You're point is really that you think a Muslim should have less than equal opportunity for prime time off.

Naunet · 21/11/2024 13:45

JJLA · 21/11/2024 13:20

Many many people do nothing over Christmas apart from sleep and watch TV. Many many people also go on holiday instead of celebrate. Are they too not allowed to take Christmas off or is that viewpoint reserved for foreign Muslims?

Show quote history

Oh was that you attempting to paint me as a racist? Just come out and say it if thats what you want to say.
So let me get this right, he should have priority over booking Eid off, even though other's might want to go away at this time, but people who celebrate christmas shouldn't be prioritised at christmas, because reasons. Is that right?

JJLA · 21/11/2024 14:17

Naunet · 21/11/2024 13:45

Oh was that you attempting to paint me as a racist? Just come out and say it if thats what you want to say.
So let me get this right, he should have priority over booking Eid off, even though other's might want to go away at this time, but people who celebrate christmas shouldn't be prioritised at christmas, because reasons. Is that right?

Show quote history

Far from it. Was only trying to show you how unfair and ridiculous you sound by claiming that the rules apply to only certain people. It’s you who has immediately become defensive thinking there’s an accusation of racism.

vincettenoir · 21/11/2024 14:58

Username638 · 21/11/2024 13:21

Thanks for the responses everyone. It’s good to get others perspectives and opinions.

I did try to change my title after I first posted this but it wouldn’t let me. Because it looks like I’m asking whether people who don’t celebrate Christmas should be ALLOWED by the company time off over that period, and that’s absolutely not what I’m asking. But that’s on me for wording it that way. I am in agreement with everyone who says that my colleague is entitled to have whatever days off he wants, and my Xmas holidays don’t trump his. I in no way, shape, or form think that he should have his holiday declined. I was only hoping that he would let someone else have the day/s seeing as he doesn’t care about the holiday.

I work closely with my colleague, we talk to each other about our lives and plans etc and at first I asked him what he’s up to over Xmas (at this point I assumed he would try to take time off over Xmas) but then he told me that as he doesn’t celebrate it and it’s just a normal day for him that he won’t be doing anything. Then a few weeks later he asked the manager in a team meeting whether he could have the week of Xmas off. My manager responded by saying it shouldn’t be a problem but don’t put in any holidays yet as he needs to send the rota. Afterwards, I asked him about this and he said he decided that instead of taking the time off and being bored over Xmas, he may as well go away. This now means that someone who is looking forward to Christmas, wants to spend time with their children etc has to miss out on a day/s of fun and food and tradition and family time etc. it’s clear to me by what he has said that Christmas is not important to him. I would feel the same if he was white or non religious or whatever, if someone has expressed that they aren’t bothered about something, and someone else IS bothered about it, surely it is the decent thing to do to let the person who IS bothered have it? I am not saying he doesn’t deserve it, I’m not saying he should have less time off or his time off doesn’t matter. I am very aware and in agreement that he is entitled to time off over Xmas. But asking to take the whole week off at a time that is very important to other people, when it’s meaningless to you is in my opinion selfish, and not a team player. If you think otherwise, that’s fine, I posted here to get other peoples opinions and a lot of people have made some fair points.

I couldn’t have added all of that into the body of my post because it’d be long and no one would read it, so I just said the gist. But people are calling me racist and things now when it’s nothing at all to do with that. It’s just about being considerate and kind to other people

Edited

This is a fair point. Regardless of race or religion you are irked by the fact that he says he doesn’t celebrate Xmas but is competing with you and others to have it off. It would have been better to have framed your post around that and not around Eid.

There could be a conflict between what he says about Xmas and the fact that he does have plans for the holiday after all. It’s not cheap to go on holiday at Xmas and he took off Xmas last year so it appears the holiday does mean more to him than you seem to think. Maybe you misinterpreted what he said or maybe he plays down his feelings about Xmas. Either way he is still entitled to take the time off, as you have acknowledged.

vincettenoir · 21/11/2024 15:00

This reply has been deleted

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Dreamskies · 21/11/2024 15:08

Username638 · 21/11/2024 13:21

Thanks for the responses everyone. It’s good to get others perspectives and opinions.

I did try to change my title after I first posted this but it wouldn’t let me. Because it looks like I’m asking whether people who don’t celebrate Christmas should be ALLOWED by the company time off over that period, and that’s absolutely not what I’m asking. But that’s on me for wording it that way. I am in agreement with everyone who says that my colleague is entitled to have whatever days off he wants, and my Xmas holidays don’t trump his. I in no way, shape, or form think that he should have his holiday declined. I was only hoping that he would let someone else have the day/s seeing as he doesn’t care about the holiday.

I work closely with my colleague, we talk to each other about our lives and plans etc and at first I asked him what he’s up to over Xmas (at this point I assumed he would try to take time off over Xmas) but then he told me that as he doesn’t celebrate it and it’s just a normal day for him that he won’t be doing anything. Then a few weeks later he asked the manager in a team meeting whether he could have the week of Xmas off. My manager responded by saying it shouldn’t be a problem but don’t put in any holidays yet as he needs to send the rota. Afterwards, I asked him about this and he said he decided that instead of taking the time off and being bored over Xmas, he may as well go away. This now means that someone who is looking forward to Christmas, wants to spend time with their children etc has to miss out on a day/s of fun and food and tradition and family time etc. it’s clear to me by what he has said that Christmas is not important to him. I would feel the same if he was white or non religious or whatever, if someone has expressed that they aren’t bothered about something, and someone else IS bothered about it, surely it is the decent thing to do to let the person who IS bothered have it? I am not saying he doesn’t deserve it, I’m not saying he should have less time off or his time off doesn’t matter. I am very aware and in agreement that he is entitled to time off over Xmas. But asking to take the whole week off at a time that is very important to other people, when it’s meaningless to you is in my opinion selfish, and not a team player. If you think otherwise, that’s fine, I posted here to get other peoples opinions and a lot of people have made some fair points.

I couldn’t have added all of that into the body of my post because it’d be long and no one would read it, so I just said the gist. But people are calling me racist and things now when it’s nothing at all to do with that. It’s just about being considerate and kind to other people

Edited

Why did the manager say it shouldn’t be a problem for him to have the whole week of Xmas off, if others who want time off will now have to work? That sounds like discrimination against your other colleagues and putting this guy first. He should go into the hat for days off like everyone else.

PoupeeGonflable · 21/11/2024 15:18

Cailleach1 · 21/11/2024 08:31

You don’t have to go to Mass again on Christmas Day if you have gone to midnight mass already.

What about Christianity dictates you can only receive only one gift?

Show quote history

Whosh over the head.
Point is, OP is being racially divisive, and unless they really are Christian, rather than merely celebrating Chritmas, their post is nonsense

PoupeeGonflable · 21/11/2024 15:19

thisfilmisboring123 · 21/11/2024 08:37

Why?? Why does it matter how they choose to ‘celebrate’?

Show quote history

Because there is the fact that OP is being disinegnuous and racially divisive

PoupeeGonflable · 21/11/2024 15:21

Username638 · 21/11/2024 07:12

We have been asking for time off since the end of October! My manager just isn’t doing it. He has said no one is allowed to book any time off over Christmas until he has sent a rota out and we all put down which days we want to work. We keep asking every week but so far it hasn’t been sent out.

I didn’t bring it up with him at the time because it’s not up to me what time he takes off. I just would’ve hoped that as he doesn’t celebrate it, he would let the other members of his team have it off instead.

Edited
Show quote history

Do you realise how racially divisive your posts are?

PoupeeGonflable · 21/11/2024 15:25

Username638 · 21/11/2024 13:21

Thanks for the responses everyone. It’s good to get others perspectives and opinions.

I did try to change my title after I first posted this but it wouldn’t let me. Because it looks like I’m asking whether people who don’t celebrate Christmas should be ALLOWED by the company time off over that period, and that’s absolutely not what I’m asking. But that’s on me for wording it that way. I am in agreement with everyone who says that my colleague is entitled to have whatever days off he wants, and my Xmas holidays don’t trump his. I in no way, shape, or form think that he should have his holiday declined. I was only hoping that he would let someone else have the day/s seeing as he doesn’t care about the holiday.

I work closely with my colleague, we talk to each other about our lives and plans etc and at first I asked him what he’s up to over Xmas (at this point I assumed he would try to take time off over Xmas) but then he told me that as he doesn’t celebrate it and it’s just a normal day for him that he won’t be doing anything. Then a few weeks later he asked the manager in a team meeting whether he could have the week of Xmas off. My manager responded by saying it shouldn’t be a problem but don’t put in any holidays yet as he needs to send the rota. Afterwards, I asked him about this and he said he decided that instead of taking the time off and being bored over Xmas, he may as well go away. This now means that someone who is looking forward to Christmas, wants to spend time with their children etc has to miss out on a day/s of fun and food and tradition and family time etc. it’s clear to me by what he has said that Christmas is not important to him. I would feel the same if he was white or non religious or whatever, if someone has expressed that they aren’t bothered about something, and someone else IS bothered about it, surely it is the decent thing to do to let the person who IS bothered have it? I am not saying he doesn’t deserve it, I’m not saying he should have less time off or his time off doesn’t matter. I am very aware and in agreement that he is entitled to time off over Xmas. But asking to take the whole week off at a time that is very important to other people, when it’s meaningless to you is in my opinion selfish, and not a team player. If you think otherwise, that’s fine, I posted here to get other peoples opinions and a lot of people have made some fair points.

I couldn’t have added all of that into the body of my post because it’d be long and no one would read it, so I just said the gist. But people are calling me racist and things now when it’s nothing at all to do with that. It’s just about being considerate and kind to other people

Edited

But your subsequent posts, particularly about colour and being Muslim were racist

flyingfar · 21/11/2024 16:07

EmmaMaria · 21/11/2024 11:21

Your memory is deficient - there is New Years Day!

Show quote history

I meant over the Christmas period. I thought that was implied.

Original poster
Username638 · 21/11/2024 16:49

PoupeeGonflable · 21/11/2024 15:25

But your subsequent posts, particularly about colour and being Muslim were racist

Show quote history

I’m sorry for my ignorance here, I didn’t mean for them to be at all. I still don’t really know why they are racist… but if that’s the case then I will be doing some thinking and sorting myself out because that’s not who I believe myself to be. I genuinely meant my post to stating that I think it’s unfair for someone who claims they don’t care about something, to then try to “fight” (so to speak) with someone who does care for time off over it. I only used Eid in my comment because I was just thinking that it seems unfair that he doesn’t need to fight for time off for his special occasion/s whereas we do. Christmas is the only time that I see my family as they live away and we all get together etc. I understand that I won’t always get it off, but to lose out on it when someone else gets it who doesn’t really care about it does make me feel disappointed. I would feel the same if a different colleague said it. For example if Barbara my white non religious colleague made it known that she isn’t bothered about Christmas, doesn’t celebrate it, thinks it’s a waste of a time etc and then I had to work it while she got it off I would also feel disappointed. I said in my post “people who don’t celebrate Christmas” this means any person who doesn’t celebrate it. I wasn’t spec Italy referring to Muslims, I only had to speak about that in my post because that’s the situation I’m in.

Multiple people have told me that this is racially divisive so I will accept that and have a word with myself. I’m sorry for any offence that this has caused, I truly didn’t want that to be the case and is not me as a person and now I feel awful for thinking this. Thank you to all who have commented!

OP posts:
Fgfgfg · 21/11/2024 17:03

You probably should have used Barbara as your example.

Rosscameasdoody · 21/11/2024 17:11

Fluufer · 21/11/2024 13:40

I still don't understand why you think it's so unfair. Why didn't the rest of you put in AL requests if it were so important to you? Is the rota actually unfair and he's getting special treatment, or does it just span multiple years and everyone gets the same chances? Just like Eid, does he actually get special treatment, or is he just the only one putting the request in?
You really can't dictate which bank holidays someone takes off because they are Muslim. I know you've now said it's not because he's Muslim, but it has been central to your argument thus far....
You're point is really that you think a Muslim should have less than equal opportunity for prime time off.

Show quote history

If you read the OP’s updates the manager hasn’t issued the Christmas rota yet and no-one can book leave until he does. And I don’t think the fact that he’s Muslim is central to the discussion at all. He’s allowed to book time off each year for Eid and from OP’s updates no-one else is allowed to book the same time. So no, her point is not the ridiculous notion that a Muslim should have less than equal time off. It’s about fairness. And I suspect at the heart of this is a manager who hasn’t got the balls to make sure everyone is fairly treated - presumably for fear of being called racist.

XWKD · 21/11/2024 17:15

If he wants time off he's as entitled to it as much as you are, the same way you are as entitled to celebrate Eid as he is. It's not anyone else's business what your religious or cultural customs are. It's discrimination if he's given special treatment.

Rosscameasdoody · 21/11/2024 17:15

PoupeeGonflable · 21/11/2024 15:21

Do you realise how racially divisive your posts are?

Show quote history

Why is it racially divisive to suggest that someone (of whatever race) who manages to get time off for their own religious/cultural festival, doesn’t celebrate Christmas and treats it as just another day, should reciprocate by allowing others to have first choice of time off for a festival they do care about ?

Rosscameasdoody · 21/11/2024 17:17

XWKD · 21/11/2024 17:15

If he wants time off he's as entitled to it as much as you are, the same way you are as entitled to celebrate Eid as he is. It's not anyone else's business what your religious or cultural customs are. It's discrimination if he's given special treatment.

Edited

Read the OP and the updates. No one else is allowed to book time off over Eid.

Rosscameasdoody · 21/11/2024 17:22

PoupeeGonflable · 21/11/2024 15:25

But your subsequent posts, particularly about colour and being Muslim were racist

Show quote history

Where has the OP been racist ? Can’t see it for the life of me. The crux of the matter is the manager hasn’t got the balls to ensure that Christmas leave is fairly decided - if you had it last year, you let someone else have first crack this year.

Fluufer · 21/11/2024 17:24

Rosscameasdoody · 21/11/2024 17:22

Where has the OP been racist ? Can’t see it for the life of me. The crux of the matter is the manager hasn’t got the balls to ensure that Christmas leave is fairly decided - if you had it last year, you let someone else have first crack this year.

Show quote history

It sounds like the manager is actually being fair, and the rota spans multiple years. OP just think the Muslim shouldn't be part of that rota and ought to volunteer.

Dramatic · 21/11/2024 17:25

Username638 · 21/11/2024 16:49

I’m sorry for my ignorance here, I didn’t mean for them to be at all. I still don’t really know why they are racist… but if that’s the case then I will be doing some thinking and sorting myself out because that’s not who I believe myself to be. I genuinely meant my post to stating that I think it’s unfair for someone who claims they don’t care about something, to then try to “fight” (so to speak) with someone who does care for time off over it. I only used Eid in my comment because I was just thinking that it seems unfair that he doesn’t need to fight for time off for his special occasion/s whereas we do. Christmas is the only time that I see my family as they live away and we all get together etc. I understand that I won’t always get it off, but to lose out on it when someone else gets it who doesn’t really care about it does make me feel disappointed. I would feel the same if a different colleague said it. For example if Barbara my white non religious colleague made it known that she isn’t bothered about Christmas, doesn’t celebrate it, thinks it’s a waste of a time etc and then I had to work it while she got it off I would also feel disappointed. I said in my post “people who don’t celebrate Christmas” this means any person who doesn’t celebrate it. I wasn’t spec Italy referring to Muslims, I only had to speak about that in my post because that’s the situation I’m in.

Multiple people have told me that this is racially divisive so I will accept that and have a word with myself. I’m sorry for any offence that this has caused, I truly didn’t want that to be the case and is not me as a person and now I feel awful for thinking this. Thank you to all who have commented!

Show quote history

You haven't come across as racist at all.

I may be a bitter person but if he actually ends up getting Christmas off and you have to work I would deliberately book annual leave for Eid next year.

Fluufer · 21/11/2024 17:26

Rosscameasdoody · 21/11/2024 17:17

Read the OP and the updates. No one else is allowed to book time off over Eid.

Show quote history

She said only one person is allowed off at once, not that Eid is reserved specifically for him. Perhaps he puts his requests in first, or nobody else wants that time off.

Rosscameasdoody · 21/11/2024 17:28

PoupeeGonflable · 21/11/2024 15:18

Whosh over the head.
Point is, OP is being racially divisive, and unless they really are Christian, rather than merely celebrating Chritmas, their post is nonsense

Show quote history

It doesn’t matter what the OP does or how she chooses to celebrate Christmas. This man has already said it means nothing to him but still wants it off, so how is that any different ? It’s you talking nonsense. There’s nothing racially divisive here. Christmas is celebrated by Christians of all races and colours. He’s had his time off for his cultural celebration, and it’s only fair that he give someone else first choice if he had Christmas off last year.

Rosscameasdoody · 21/11/2024 17:28

Fluufer · 21/11/2024 17:26

She said only one person is allowed off at once, not that Eid is reserved specifically for him. Perhaps he puts his requests in first, or nobody else wants that time off.

Show quote history

She says if anyone else tries to book it, it’s rejected.

Rosscameasdoody · 21/11/2024 17:30

Fluufer · 21/11/2024 17:24

It sounds like the manager is actually being fair, and the rota spans multiple years. OP just think the Muslim shouldn't be part of that rota and ought to volunteer.

Show quote history

Rubbish. The rota hasn’t been issued yet and we’re four weeks away from Christmas. He’s already declared his intention to book it, despite having it last year. That’s unfair in any circumstance. Manager needs to grow a pair and sort it out.

Fluufer · 21/11/2024 17:32

Rosscameasdoody · 21/11/2024 17:30

Rubbish. The rota hasn’t been issued yet and we’re four weeks away from Christmas. He’s already declared his intention to book it, despite having it last year. That’s unfair in any circumstance. Manager needs to grow a pair and sort it out.

Show quote history

The Christmas day rota appears to be seperate to the AL request (note, it is still a request). Perhaps the manager knows he wont be on this years rota. OP says 2 need to be there, I'm assuming they aren't a team of 4...
There's no excuse for the rota not being out yet, but I don't think it's anything to do with this man and his leave.