Exhausted with current situation - money issue

[Dreambow]

I don’t really know what to expect from this but please be kind.

We are a married couple both in professional jobs (doctor and DH works in the city - not a banker).
I have been contracting the last few years as NHS salary doesn’t cover enough outgoings.
We have a 2.5 year old and a 8 week old.

All we do is work work work. The cost of everything is eating up everything and we have several credit cards (interest free). We live frugally as we can but our outgoings are huge and have increased so much over the past two years. I am so worried that this is going to get worse over the next few years.

We have a large mortgage as live in London for DH work - since the rate of interest has gone up we are now paying £1200 per month extra. Still better off in the long run than rent and we are grateful for this.

Nursery fees were £1050 per month in Jan 2022 and now £1600 (£550 per month increase) for full time. This is for one child (not eligible for government help). Absolutely dreading when the second one starts nursery and when they go up again next year. This is for a cheap nursery - most are £2000 per month for one child full time.

On top of this energy bills and food bills all increased. We have a Victorian house and it’s freezing cold (apart from the ground floor which has underfloor heating). Currently 10 degrees in the house (not ground floor). No insulation (apart from loft) and heating bills are huge so try and turn off as much as possible but harder with children.

We never go out, no date nights (babysitter plus cost of going out would be too much. No coffees out, no meals out, no cinema. No holidays. Clothes from Vinted.

Our living costs have increased by around £2000 per month including increased mortgage £1200 month, increased nursery fees £550 month, energy and food bills etc

For the past two years I worked every weekend (apart from Christmas and Easter) and 2-4 days in the week. Some of my work is adhoc so unpredictable with childcare and have to put DC in nursery for full time.

I feel like we are working a lot harder but wages are not going up. Our outgoings have increased by £2000 month over the last two years but our lifestyles are much much worse.

We used to be able to go out for coffee/ meals/ cinema dates comfortably. We used to go on holiday a lot. We were able to buy high street clothes without thinking twice. House is currently freezing cold and on top of it all we also have a mouse problem (coming in from next door).

I know we are in a better position than some but I feel pretty down-beaten and exhausted with it all. I think inflation will back up again next year and I am not sure how we will financially and mentally manage it all.

To expect to have a better quality of life, working full time and working hard?

@OrlandointheWilderness i agree - one life only and don’t want to waste it. My DH puts his head in the sand a lot and we are often too busy to sit down and go through options but we need to.

@hettie his job is very London centric. When I looked at the numbers we could move to commuter areas but the cost is now similar to London plus unreliable costly trains in the mix.

@hattie43 this. It does make me think the UK is tanking. I think inflation will go up again a lot next year and this make me worried. We are working to pay bills and keep afloat. I will think if two people are working full time there has to be rewards in life, not just surviving.

Could whoever is earning over £100k pay a bit more into the pension so you can get the free hours and the tax free child care? It would make a huge difference.

The thing is that as a doctor you can potentially access more affordable childcare as they have nurseries for staff that often have a staff discount and you can pay out of your net salary saving the tax.

But I am completely against having a cut off for child care help.

I think the obvious choice would be to move out of london or hold on until there's no nursery fees. You could get a job anywhere if you're a doctor.

Have you honestly looked at NHS roles in large hospitals within commuting distance of London - you work locally in more reasonable cost housing and childcare, with your husband travelling into London for work. Practically speaking you need childcare at home - a live in nanny with consultant hours and on call. I live 1hr.15mins train ride from a major station in the City and its perfectly doable to work 5 days a week at that distance on a high speed train. Housing is significantly cheaper here and there are two major hospitals within 10 miles with differing centres of excellence. I know several hospital consultants [I'm not medical] who also do private practice at a BUPA hospital or travel into the City a day or two a week. Depends on the area of expertise.

How far out are you looking when you say you're looking at commuter zones?

My parents moved from zone 3 London to Cambridge when I was a baby. From Cambridge central it is 50 mins to Kings Cross. My dad used to say it took longer to get to his workplace from zone 3 than it did from Cambridge.

Ofc Cambridge is expensive now, and you'd have to look at the costs and trains compared to your current mortgage but it does sound like you need a lifestyle change. For me, your lifestyle wouldn't be sustainable, and you earn a lot more than me.

Like others have said, if your dh got another job out of London you could look at moving much further away. It might not pay the same but you'd be better off.

@Artistbythewater i agree - I am not surprised your daughter is not interested in having children. Financially it’s a killer as the UK is not set up for two parents working.
Good question - We really wanted 2-3 children but will have to relook at this strongly. We needed help to conceive first baby and it took 3 years. Second baby came along really easily which we are very happy with but we did not expect to get pregnant so quickly.

The younger generation are not interested in children and are going to find it even harder given costs are going up. Adults are house sharing/ living at home longer. Student loans are now never ending. Something is not right.

@Twiglets1 and @Lindjam yes one option is to just power through. Will definitely look at getting a modern house next when we build up some equity.

@Sheepsandcows you are very unpleasant with a massive chip on your shoulder. Move on and get on with your own life.

@RosesAndHellebores crikey that sounds stressful - gives me hope that you got through it.

@ByMerryKoala great suggestion but the tax on renting wouldn’t then cover the mortgage if we did this unfortunately

@ItsReallyOnlyMe great idea - this may work. Going to look into it! Thank you

@Phonicshaskilledmeoff your set up sounds ideal. My DH would have to change career but something to consider as we would have so much more time.

My DH works in London and we live 1.5 hours away, on the Norfolk/Suffolk border to give you an idea of location. Our mortgage and DH’s train fare is less than your mortgage. DH commutes into London every day as there is no way we’d be able to afford to live there.

I don't have a chip in my shoulder. Even though you don't want to say what the income is, if is obvious that you are in the top percentile in terms of earnings. I think it's really poor taste to plead poverty in such circumstances. We obviously disagree on that one and thatnis fine. Will leave this thread now. Good luck with whatever you decide :)

Perhaps moving to an 'interest only' mortgage whilst you are in the nursery years may help relieve the financial pressure?

What is equity and value of house ? Extend term. Move to interest only. Move to a garden flat if 200k cheaper than a house.
Invest in the insulation if you decide to stay.

What does your dh think and offer?

It s next years with childcare costs. For both.

@EvangelicalAboutButteredToast this. I do feel priced out having children now because of the increased costs with everything else as well as childcare. Seriously worried about lifting of council tax.

@MulberryPeony thank you. It’s really strange to look back at old receipts - literally rolling in it then!

A few pp mentioned Australia and private practice. I could do private practice but didn’t really want to but I will have to relook at it again.

That’s good because London is pretty full already! Most Londoners cannot begin to envision the lack of culture etc. outside the M25. So much so you’ve got city types and doctors who’d rather live in a freezing cold house (with crippling bills), than move to a soulless Barrett’s home estate in the middle of… erm… nowhere. My idea of actual hell.

Hey Op, I just wanted to sympathise. You haven't done anything wrong. It's fine to live in London and want to stay living in London, IIWY I'd ignore the chorus saying "Leave London! It will resolve everything!" because it won't necessarily.

Our mortgage has gone from £400 to £1200 a month and our gas and electricity from £300 to £500 a month so I know the feeling. We can afford it but we're lucky we can.

I think you've just had a baby so you're (understandably) emotional; you're cold, as are we all, it's freezing and you're wondering how you ended up here. I think you don't have to do anything right now, except enjoy your baby and hope it gets better. Mortgage rates might go down, as might electricity and gas costs. The nursery costs will go in the end but you'll still need some childcare so factor that in but don't worry about it for now. Sorry you're so fed up, I get the "why are we not better off?" feeling and sympathise.

It’s nice that you like it there, but to wake up machete welding thugs, grime and crime and relentless noise would be my personal vision of hell. Theatre, art galleries, incredible musicians and restaurants and amazing festivals DO exist elsewhere without the danger and risk. Just saying.

The house is the millstone around your neck. The mortgage is now unaffordable and it’s costing you a small fortune to run. If you can deal with that, you’d be in a much better position.

Although the trains are costly and unreliable, I really can’t see why your DH cannot commute into the City. The money you’d save on your property outgoings if you bought something smaller outside of London must easily outweigh the train fares.

Yes, it would mean that DH has a longer commute so isn’t around for the kids as much but that isn’t insurmountable.

Don’t believe everything you read in the papers, London is the 14th safest city in the world. You need to get out more, it’s a big old world out there…

Without the risk? Since when does crime only happen in London?

We've just had the same discussion yesterday. I've had a good corporate job and advanced pretty quickly. I always thought that getting to the level I am now would mean some degree of financial comfort, that I could go to a restaurant or buy something in Reiss or other similarly priced stores without even thinking. When I was starting my career it definitely looked like this was possible. But now the combination of mortgage + nursery fees is just killing us. I don't want to complain, we have a nice house and good life, but it feels we are less comfortable than the previous generation/

In my personal experience people that are similar age and seem very comfortable either were able to get on the property ladder very early thanks to the bank of mum and dad or did not have to pay nursery fees because their family was able to help.

I agree. I've lived in London all my life and it's great. I've never in my life seen anyone wield a machete. There are dodgy areas everywhere, you just don't go to them on your own at night. When I was growing up (many moons ago), my mother used to warn me not to go to certain places, streets, etc (which of course made me want to investigate when I was old enough, and I did). There was crime, including violence, flick knives and various other things, just not on our manor. There is violent crime all over the world.

I do think older generations had it easier. When I was in my 20s I was earning £45k and the flat I bought in zone 2 was £100k, totally doable on one salary. That same flat is now worth about £400k so you'd need a salary of
over £100k to afford it.

No need to be snarky, I actually do not take on extra shifts for this reason. Crossing the tax band means I lose tax free childcare and free hours with a higher tax bill which could leave me worse off. So it matters especially if kids are full time in nursery.

I lived in London for nearly 15 years. My dh still commutes there daily. I think we know what happens there 🙄🙄

There is violent crime everywhere. Cities have denser populations, so you would expect a concentration of crime anywhere that you see a concentration of people. I’m a Londoner born and bred and although I have seen someone with a machete (don’t live in Catford people), I also witnessed a number of Londoners apprehend the person and hold them for the police. I’m 44 years old and that’s once. Anecdotally, villagers from other parts of the UK don’t really understand or like cities, but that is very separate from whether they are safe.

And not everywhere has crime on the scale of London !! Nothing remotely close. I love the place but it’s very very stressful living and working there. You have got used to it, but not everyone wants to get used to that level of stress.