Personal thoughts on assisted dying.

[Widowtobeat40]

AIBU to find the assisted dying Bill debate really hard?
My husband is 47 he's terminally ill. Best case he has close to 12 months worse case a couple of months. He's in significant pain, is currently going through the process of serious ill Health retirement which has had a huge impact on his self worth.
He has gone through some of the most brutal treatment I've seen in the last 3 1/2 years making every attempt to survive but where he is now is that he wants to be able to chose when enough is enough.
I appreciate that it's a hugely personal vote but what I see is most people against it are those that have no experience of a terminal illness or those that are disabled rather than terminally ill.
I absolutely understand the concern about the possibility of expanding the safeguards but that isn't what MPs are voting on. The Mental health act has changed minimally over the years despite huge suggested changes.
My husband could get the best palliative care in the world but truth is he is likely to die a pretty awful, painful death. Should he not be allowed to decide when enough is enough???
Whatever the vote it will be too late for him but I would like to think that others will get that choice.

Everyone gets an opinion because we live in a democracy with freedom of speech.

And actually, for this debate, nobody can have first hand experience of dying and being certified dead as they then wouldn't be able to take part in the discussion. The "understanding of" is more subjective but does a disservice to the complexity of the debate. This issue is too important to not let someone voice their opinion through silencing arguments such as "they've never seen someone die" or "they're clouded by grief".

Explaining how you've reached your view can be powerful and persuasive. I'm genuinely sorry for the losses that people on this thread have experienced. It doesn't mean that others aren't allowed their own opinion.

Exactly. It's not 'life' is it? It's just existance.

As someone in the medical field working in Canada I can assure you this is absolutely false.
The laws are well written in my opinion. There are good procedures in place.
What you have described is not happening.

You can say that you haven't seen it. But you can't say it is absolutely false.

In fact somethings, like statistical overrepresentation of a group, an individual would not be able to see.

I can't really come out strongly either way. I can understand people with a painful terminal illness wanting to have the option. But I'm worried about the consequences. I think it's such a difficult issue.

I am fully in favour. And honestly, this probably makes me a horrible person but if anyone who is against it and thinks they should get to decide for OTHER PEOPLE doesn't end up with a lingering painful death at the end of their life then there's truly no justice in the world.
Absolutely it needs to be regulated and it won't be perfect, i expect primarily ir would be too restricted for a lot of people. But they idea that their personal doubts should supersede another person's right to not die in excruciating agony is despicable.

I haven’t read any other comments But what I have experienced is the following. Being in a position where my mother was bedbound. I don’t want to give too much detail as it will out me. We reached a point where she could either go home or be sent to an old peoples home but she couldn’t stay in the facility she was in. We wanted her home, and in fact she said wanted to go home as a first instinct , but a particular doctor really took against this idea and tried to persuade her very specifically that she would be a burden on us. The doctor did this in a very sneaky and underhand way which I uncovered just prior to the decision so I was able to persuade mum she wouldn’t be a burden.

I am 100% against this bill. There have been cases in Canada where people who are homeless decide to end their lives where had they had the money to afford an apartment they wouldn’t have done so. The abuses are horrendous. The coercion is very real. And it removes the burden on the state to actually provide alternatives for people who are at the edge of their lives.

dare I say it too, I feel seeing my mother suffer was both a blessing and a curse. It was a time of great love and pulling together.

The law will be eroded, as it has in every other country. Already there’s a murkiness to it. Two medical practitioners, not even doctors, are required to sign this off.

It’s not difficult to imagine a future where a government uses that law if it comes into power to enact harsh sentences against people who somehow offend the state.

Slippery slope all the way

That's not a very pleasant post. And a very simplistic way of looking at the issue, which is definitely not simple.

Well, that’s a mature well thought out response isn’t it? I would suggest you went into politics if the third Reich still existed.

People should have the choice, over their own lives.

We wouldn’t be allowed to keep a pet alive and in pain and suffering, so why should it be inflicted on humans who just want a peaceful, dignified end?

Obviously, there needs to be robust safeguards built into this.

I’m so sorry about your husband OP. 💐

I do support the right to assisted dying. But I also worry that we’ll end up with a societal expectation that anyone with a terminal diagnosis kills themself to spare their loved ones watching them suffer.

Fantastic post.

My mum is from a country where euthanasia is legal (Netherlands). We have a relative who was euthanised when dying of liver cancer, a few days from probable death but suffering greatly. In those circumstances, of course I support it.

I have a friend whose mother died of the same cancer in the UK and her last days were excruciating and very difficult for my friend and her family to witness.

Evidence please.

I am one of the most opinionated people I know! (though I'm quite polite so keep my opinions to myself except online usually! 😉) and in the case of assisted dying I am honestly opinion-less.

For every argument on one side, I find another on the other. I also don't have direct experience of terminal illness in this timeframe (my mother died a few years ago, but we only knew her condition was 'terminal' a few days before, so there wouldn't have been time for all the checks and processes etc... required in an assisted dying bill. She was very pro assisted dying though, throughout her life).

I think this question is just so hard and so many different ethical and moral questions, some of which humans will never have the answer to, simply have immobilised me on this one. I just simply don't know, which is just not like me.

But sending you and your DH and family big hugs and all my thoughts. I am so sorry for everything you and he have been through and are going through. In his shoes I understand his decision, whatever that may be💐💐💐

You are correct. I've cared for two terminally ill people so I get everything you say. I feel.its not going to get voted in which is appalling in my view.

These things are not equivalent.

Being entitled to euthanasia for the suffering caused by homelessness is not the same as being euthanised simply for being homeless.
Not even fucking close.

I did 26 years as a nurse and I'm married to a Dr. Sadly between us we have seen many many long drawn out unpleasant deaths. You think because someone dies in hospital it will be dignified, peaceful and pain free? Think again! And thats not because staff aren't doing their best, it's because palliative care can only do so much. Hospices are very wonderful places, but we don't have enough, and even they can't guarantee it won't be unpleasant. None of us ever know when we might need to take advantage of assisted dying, it could be us suffering and desperate for release.

People need to read the bill, it has good safeguarding built in.

I'm so sorry OP.

I agree with it. I think people should have the choice to die with as much dignity as possible. I don't want to slowly die in enormous pain with no quality of life and like your DH I want agency over my life.

Having recently been through a parent dying of aggressive leukaemia I have mixed feelings. Palliative care services are already so patchy I'm worried that even less funding will go their way if assisted dying is used as an excuse by trusts to further reduce resources. Perhaps I'm cynical, but I can just imagine it. I had some grim days with my mother when it became clear that 'dying at home' would not be what it was supposed to be and would involve frantic calls to district nurses who didn't appear for a long, long time. I worry that people who might have wanted to keep on going might hear even more horror stories about lack of palliative services and ask for AD, when better funded palliative care might have made them feel very differently.

That said, I would like the AD option for myself.

I'm absolutely for it! When my time comes I want to be able to end my suffering rather than a long drawn out painful enviable death

I am very torn over it

Of course I feel that in many cases it is the right, and basically humane, thing to support

But I have also watched the Better off Dead documentary and understand the fears of it becoming a slippery slope.

I think on balance I would support it, but be very very wary

@sleepwouldbenice I think everyone who has thought seriously about it finds it extremely difficult. When people come on these threads and give a baldly one-sided statement and declare that anyone who disagrees with them must be morally deficient in some way, its a sure sign they haven't thought about it very much or very carefully. Its not about 'taking people's options away' - suicide is not illegal. If someone does not have the means or ability to complete suicide, I haven't taken that option away from them, something else has. If there was a vote tomorrow - with the NHS as it is, I think I would vote no. It would trouble me greatly and I'd find it difficult, but I think the current situation is just too perilous.

I wouldn't want to be an MP!
As I say I think I would support it, but I would urge people to watch the documentary to understandthe concerns.
They did interview a suicidal homeless man who also was in some physical pain so he couldn't work. He was approved for assisted dying due to the latter but got it cancelled. They are also considering for children and also for adults with mental health issues....

Although I am sure everyone who is on this thread would be vehemently opposed to these examples, it also clearly shows that the idea of a slippery slope is not absurd.

For those who have been or are facing these circumstances I send my heartfelt sympathy.

I don’t think the slippery slope arguments are silly at all.

Presumably you wouldn’t see homelessness as a sufficiently terminal illness to qualify and yet…https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/17/canada-nonterminal-maid-assisted-death

That’s where they have slippery slopes too in Canada.

It’s really complex - I want OP’s husband to have the right to choose, but if his right to choose enables other vulnerable people being pressured then that’s not OK with me.

But a patronizing “silly” won’t suffice.