HIGHLIGHTING DANGER OF WOODBURNERS

[GlassHouseBlue]

Fine particulate matter (PM2.5) -
essentially tiny particles of soot - is one
of the most dangerous air pollutants.
Breathing it in is linked to lung cancer,
heart damage, strokes, impaired cognition
and mental health problems, and can
exacerbate conditions such as asthma,
COPD and pulmonary fibrosis. Children
and elderly people are most vulnerable

The ‘ecodesign’ stoves produce 450 times more air pollution than gas central heating. That’s the DEFRA approved ones. Anything that involves opening the burner door while lit, like toasting marshmallows, drastically increases the air pollution. I really hope that you are an exception to the rule.

Well done OP. We're gradually moving away from fossil fuel burning vehicles, but as my local air gets cleaner as car pollution declines, particulate matter is being chucked into the air by selfish people who have nice central heating but decide to impose their choices on everyone else. And I live in a naice urban area - no one here is doing it for anything but preference. Should be absolutely banned in built up areas. I can't escape it.

If I moved back to NZ & bought a house (need to lottery fairies to bless me as they've gone up so much!!) the first thing I'd do is install a wood burner.

I couldn't go back to an unheated house, nor the stupid air pump heating.

The people who have and use wood burners might not change their minds but if it prevents someone from having a wood burner installed it’s worth it.

I have a wood burner, but I don’t idle my car.

I also don’t use either the car, or the wood burner constantly.

Tbf I think the OP has a point. I live in a small village where there is no clean air zones and my neighbour burns all sorts in his fire not only causing a huge stink which affects my breathing he’s also had several chimney fires.

I am not against log burners though. I have one however it is defra approved and I burn clean oak briquettes. My fire and chimney are cleaned and serviced annually and never a bit of bother. No smoke is emitted from my fire.

so I guess what I am saying is more education needed on responsible fires..and more support to LAs to enforce this. The neighbour above works for the council, gets his wet wood from the council that he then pollutes the atmosphere with

@GlassHouseBlue Fine particulate matter (PM2.5) - essentially tiny particles of soot - is one of the most dangerous air pollutants.

I know.

But what can anyone to do about it?

If you go for a walk outdoors in winter through a residential area, it's a guarantee you'll be walking past someone's smokey chimney.

If you walk through a supermarket car park, there's a near 100% probability that at least one dick head will be running his car engine for no apparent reason.

It's extremely bad for our health, but what can be done?

No one with chronic bronchitis, breast cancer, heart disease, dementia, wheezing, asthma attacks or heart attacks? Woodsmoke has been shown to increase the risk of all these illnesses.

I have a multi fuel burner, thank goodness!! As currently my bulk gas tank has a problem! I light my stove with 4 bits of kindling and 1 twisty wood thingy firelighter. Am in a rural area where we have no mains gas, and rely on bulk delivery, or some folks with bulk oil tanks.
my stove never ‘back fires’ smoke into house, as if it did my C02 monitor and smoke alarms would go bonkers!
I was out today for longer than expected, and when I arrived home the temperature in main room in house was 6.5oC!!
is now at 16oC thanks to fuel burner!

Woooooah, mic drop from @TwistedSisters everyone!!!!

Using “evidence” from a stove company is just so compelling, I’m completely persuaded, argument won, we can all go home.

👏

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Surely as a HCP you know anecdata isn't data?

17% of the UK’s housing stock was built pre 1900. These were built without cavity walls, with suspended floors or stone floors directly on soil, single glazed windows, open chimneys. They were built on the basis that the buildings had good airflow and could breathe. They were built for open fire heating. When you add insulation, damp proof plastics, double glazing etc they just “sweat” which leads to damp, mould, rot and decay. They cannot be hermetically sealed for modern central heating systems to be effective.
I had my gas central heating on today for 8 hours straight, but the temperature didn’t get past 15 degrees. My real fire ( with “ smokeless” coal) meant that at least my sitting room was toasty this evening and the residual heat in the bricks and the chimney means my bedroom above is at least not freezing!
So I would say you are being unreasonable for a proportion of households that need some additional form of reasonably priced heating beyond the standard gas/electric central heating. We cant all live in modern housing heated by air source heat pumps.

Yup I do. I can’t say categorically that there is a lower incident of respiratory disease here where everyone has wood burners/open fires than in more urban areas but there is no reason why I as an HCP with 40+ years experience can’t state my impression as long as I clearly state it’s not scientifically proven,

Our house is over 300 years old, mainly Cob walls, and only heat provision is solid fuel, no way any things like air source heating etc could work!

Did you not read the post above explaining a 70% increase means 5 cases per million people, rather than 3.5? So if everyone with a wood-burning stove eats a bit less bacon, job done.

Well done for spectacularly missing the point.

PP implied people were healthier at a time when fires were more common.

I pointed out the evidence doesn’t support that.

Where did I suggest that reduced use of wood fires and that alone had led to increased life expectancy and decreased child mortality?

Oh.

Hang on a minute.

I didn’t.

I didn’t advance any positive case.

But thanks anyway for your contribution, it must have taken quite a bit of time and effort to google come up with that list.

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/nature-and-pollution-what-lichens-tell-us-about-toxic-air.html
We have lots of beautiful lichens growing here apparently most don’t thrive in areas with high levels of air pollution. So I guess here the wood burners/open fires are causing significant air pollution issues.
i fully appreciate that it’s a different story in areas with a high population density.

It screws the air quality generally, in the same way that car exhaust does. No, you might not be suffering directly if you have one in your home, because the smoke is vented outside, but unless you're living in a hermetically sealed bubble with your own oxygen recycling kit, you need to breathe the air from outside just like everyone else, and if that's full of pollution, it affects everyone, including you.
According to government stats, 17% of the uk's small-particle pollution comes from the 8% of homes that have wood burners.
It's not surprising that sales literature produced by people-who-sell-woodburners has a different spin on the issue. To paraphrase the immortal words of Mandy Rice Davies... well it would, wouldn't it ?

People who jumped on the cosy woodburner trend during the past 15 years or so because it was a suburban status symbol just can’t bear to acknowledge that they’ve fucked up.

It could be worse. People could be burning peat.

Let's ban wood fires in pubs too, and make them go outside for a smoke.

That looks positively delightful. Well jealous👀 Not allowed to have a real log burner.

I also envy the energy independence it gives you. They occasionally give away wood at my local park sometimes. I wish to god I could have one collect the wood, store it and dry it out and have a back up rather than living 100% at the mercy of my energy company. I knew someone who had a LB and she fried eggs and bacon in a little frying pan and heated a kettle on top of hers! So handy and pragmatic.

What are the installation requirements in the US where the study was conducted compared to the UK?

Built up areas rarely allow wood burners. Most councils stipulate what, if anything, you can burn.

In the countryside and non built up areas most councils allow wood to be burnt because there are more trees to offset the damage to the environment

Modern wood burners are also far more efficient these days and are regulated.

If you want to see more Dyson there’s a thread running with people sending in pictures