Should I lend DN money?

[7inchesFromTheMiddaySun]

Some background: I don't get on with my DB, we rarely talk (a couple of times a year) and we see each other once every couple of years. We've never been close and are very different. However over the past few years I've become closer with his DD. Let's call her Sarah. Sarah is now 25, works, and lives with her BF in a rented flat.

My DB owns his flat outright (it was our parents' and I was happy for him to have it when they died as I have my own home and don't need the flat or any money from selling it. DB is in a low-paid job although he's very good at managing his money). He's now decided he's moving in with his GF with whom he's been on and off for 3 - 4 years, in a very volative relationship. My DB has offered his DD, Sarah, the flat, saying she and her BF can move in and make it their own (I don't think he'd put Sarah's name on the deeds though).

Sarah is excited at the idea to move in because it's a nicer flat that where she's renting at the moment (same area). DB recently had the place redone including new flooring, new kitchen, etc. However Sarah hates her dad's GF and wants to change the appearance of the flat so it won't have memories of her when Sarah moves in with her BF. I get that can be a 'trigger' but...

Sarah has asked me to lend her some money to do this: last year, when Sarah was hoping to get a mortgage with her BF to buy a place together, she had asked whether I'd be happy to lend them money for the deposit (I said yes because I can afford to and they are both working so hard, I'd like to 'reward' that. Sarah's never asked me for money before and is also very good at saving, like her dad/my DB). Now that there's no need for me to lend her money for a deposit, she'd like to borrow £10,000 to change the look of the flat.

I've explained that:

• her dad's relationship is very volatile (he's the kind of person who is best friends/madly in love with someone today, and doesn't want to see them again in a couple of months. He's always been like that. Which is also why our relationship has been so up and down) so he's likely to leave his GF and want to move back into the flat in the next year at the latest

• it's madness to change the kitchen (which is less than a year old), the flooring throughout (just as new) and the bathroom (ditto) because Sarah's dad's GF used to stay over. I suggested painting the walls and changing accessories. It will have a huge impact on the look and feel of the place.

• If Sarah really wants the money I will lend it to her but I don't agree with what she wants to do with it. However she's an adult and she needs to make her own decisions. I will (try) not to resent how she spends it.

What would you do? I like that Sarah is growing up 'balanced' and not 'disturbed' like her dad. I like that she's working hard and earning fairly well. That she's in a loving relationship (been with her BF for about 7 - 8 years), etc. I suggested moving into the flat, waiting a year or so to see if her dad doesn't ask to move back in, then redecorate. She said that she just can't move in unless the place looks different.

Should I lend her the money? I could afford not to get it back - that's not the point. My question is whether wanting to 'change' the flat and spending £10K to do it is madness even though she would pay me back so it'd eventually be her money she's spending on it. I work hard so £10K is £10K. I would NOT spend it myself to redecorate my place. But I'm happy to help Sarah. But I'm really torn.

AIBU: you're mad - you shouldn't lend Sarah the money
AINBU: she's an adult. Lend her the money.

Say no. You won't get the money back and she'll probably overspend and ask for more. Tell her that when she buys you will help her then.

You could give her a gift card for John Lewis so she can get some furnishings.

Absolutely not. This is in no way the same as giving her money towards a deposit.

Tell her no, you'd rather save the money for when he wants to buy her own place, and to view her dads flat as a stop gap, so she can save herself also, and ultimately get her own property at some point. If she was renting somewhere the traditional way, she wouldn't be able to move in and rip out kitchens, bathrooms, flooring, etc and would potentially have to live in somewhere nowhere near as nice as the recently newly furnished flat sounds, and have to put up with the landlords decor. She's coming across very entitled tbh. And our brother would probably be annoyed if she started ripping out things that have probably cost him alot of money, to replace with others that he may not like. Ultimately it is his (and legally, yours as well? Unsure) but she can't be changing it all herself when it doesn't warrant doing.

It’s incredibly wasteful, if the kitchen and flooring are less than a year old. I’d refuse on that basis (and bite my tongue about her being a ridiculous brat).

I think you're spot on.

If it was for essential repairs or maintenance that's one thing, but 10k on cosmetics is a very silly way to spend money. If the place was falling to bits I'd understand a bit more, but from what you've said they just want to change it for personal reasons.

That's the kind of thing you can waste your own 10k on, not somebody else's.

the money issue is a red herring … what happens when there is a argument between your DB and GF and she throws him out the house, where is your DB going to stay?

Someone voted for me to lend my DN the money - I'd love to hear their take on this if they are reading.

You tell her that you've very kindly and generously ear marked that money to invest in her future, not to waste on the instant gratification she will get unnecessarily wasting it on a flat she has no legal rights to. Tell her the money is for a house deposit and nothing else. That's that. I've got savings accounts for my own kids which they know is only to be touched when they are thinking of buying a property. It is not for anything else. No dipping into it for a holiday, or a car, or shopping sprees. The money is for a house and that's that.

Also, she needs to learn that most people do not have someone that they could just borrow £10k off for unnecessary things.

If she feels that she has to do it, then she needs to get a commercial loan.

It's an absolutely mad thing to spend money on and I wouldn't be confident you'd get it back - no matter how careful with her own money she is that's a completely different scenario to paying back a few hundred a month (I presume you'll want quite high repayments as if its a hundred a month or less it will take nearly a decade to pay back and you will lose £500 in interest compared to if it was in a high interest account) at the same time as paying rent and saving up for a deposit when her dad inevitably kicks her out.

However you would be unreasonable because from your wording "ive explained...If Sarah really wants the money I will lend it to her" it sounds like you've promised it to her despite your misgivings so it would be a bit shit to withdraw the offer now. You should have just explained to her at the time that when the circumstances changed you wouldn't still give the money, or at the very least you would think about it. Saying yes, even if a begrudging yes and then going back on your word isn't great.

I don't think she's as 'balanced' or good at saving as you think she is. Borrowing £10k to change the look of a flat that's just been done up because someone she doesn't like sometimes stayed over isn't normal behaviour, it also suggests she doesn't have money saved up (unless she's planning on spending far more than that).
Are you sure that's what the money is for? I think as you don't agree with her plan you should say no. Sadly it seems she is using you

Jeez - I thought I had it bad! My niece (dd of the sister I haven't spoken to for 15 years) asked me for £200 - 'vet fees' for her cat. I offered £100 and requested it back ASAP; £100 is quite a lot for me, but DN is MinimumWage and doesn't get on with her own mother, and I actually thought I'd get it back Hahahahahahahahahaha

I have never even had £10 back. She even had the nerve to request £20 recently to 'go to see Granny (my mum)'.

Don't do it. It'll sour all relations with everyone you do get on with.

Even if the flat was a complete shit hole(which it doesn't sound like), she's choosing to move into it, so she takes it as it comes, or he stays where she is. It's quite simple op. I'd make her feel quite silly for even asking for money for this... "you do know how much money that is? No one would spend 10 thousand pounds on a flat that isn't theirs, that's ridiculous!"

@another1bitestheduck WHen I told her I thought she was mad for thinking of doing this, because there are much cheaper ways to change the look of the flat, because her dad is likely to come back, because it's a TON of money, she did go quiet and then sort of semi-agreed. I don't think she's spoken to any other 'adult' about this. She just got excited and carried away with her BF. I can't imagine her talking to anyone else e.g. her BF's parents about this and they saying it's a great idea. So far it seems pretty much everyone here agrees it's a waste of money.

This is reminding me of Liz Jones - she spent tens of thousands doing up a rented house and was shocked! shocked, I tell you! when the landlord promptly evicted her and put it on the market to cash in on the improvements.

This is a stupid idea and enabling her to get into debt for this purpose would not be doing her any favour.

I know it's nice to help family but I think you're being a bit too kind Op. You let your DB keep the flat when by rights you could have inherited too, now his DD is going to live there for free but only if it's to her taste (I know she's hates the GF but that makes no difference to the flat being for free). It won't do your DN any good to think you'll always be ready to give her money, gratitude can soon turn to entitlement which will sour your relationship.
Tell your DN you won't lend her the money, if she's willing to turn down a rent free flat then she's not nearly as mature as you think

I’d say no. Maybe a token amount to give it a bit of a change (luck of paint etc) but not a huge sum like that.

Tell her there’s a big difference between using a substantial amount for a deposit which will be an investment belonging to her, and spending money on something that won’t be hers and she may need to give up.

No and sorry to say Sarah is an idiot. She should be saving like mad if she is living rent free. Together with your help, she could have about 30k saved in a couple of years and they could get something quite decent. This is just madness and the dad will blatantly want to move back home quite soon when his volatile relationship breaks down. Absolutely do not give her this money but instead say you will match some of her savings.

No. I'd buy her a gift e.g. some cushions/an occasional table/a food mixer-something pretty and easily portable which she can take with her when this arrangement ends, as it almost certainly will.

No. I would say I am happy to lend her the money when she buys her own property as previously agreed. She, as an adult, can then decide if she wants to move into this flat as is, save up to redecorate it or go ahead with purchasing a property as an investment while living in her dad's flat.

Absolutely not. If she wants to redecorate a recently decorated flat, she can save up and do it herself. If she's not paying rent she can put that money towards it.

Is Sarah's mum on the scene? Is she giving her any advice about this?

If the current state of the flat is so upsetting to Sarah, she shouldn’t move in. It’s lovely of you to support her in various ways, but this is just an immature vanity project. The key thing is your brother’s volatility, and that is where I would focus in explaining to her that you won’t make that loan.

I am adding my two pennies worth to say that 10k is a ridiculous amount of money to lend/spend on decorating a property that one does not own and doesn't even have a contract for.

You mentioned that "Sarah" probably hasn't spoken to any other "adults" about saving and spending - could you be this adult? Ask her if she wants to have a chat about savings/ISAs/pensions/mortgages/budgets/consumer lending or if she feels there's anything she'd like to know more about. Asking her if she needs advice, or pointing her towards Money Saving Expert, is not exactly ramming budgeting down her throat.

You don't have to be Captain Killjoy, but honestly I bought a flat in my 20s "under duress" from my parents and it is one of the best financial decisions I ever made. I run all financial decisions by an uncle for advice because he knows about that sort of stuff and is currently enjoying a very comfortable retirement - lead by example. Perhaps a nudge in the saving/investment/planning for the future direction from someone she trusts will be invaluable to her, if you ask.

Do you have kids OP? I just wonder it sounds as if as generous as you are your daughter is a bit entitled and I know sometimes “childfree aunties” can be a magnet for this kind of entitled behaviour.

I would never dream of just asking someone for 10K unless I really had to. Her and her boyfriend should focus on saving up for a deposit while they’re fortunate enough to live in your brothers flat.