WWYD-child alone on car

[Moorethemerrier]

Need some advice. If I handled this correctly and what others would have done

Pulled into shops today and car next to me has a child (roughly 2yrs old) asleep in the car. It’s 1degrees here today and has been snowing. I stood by the car for 5 mins and took a photo of the number plate to go into to shops to ask for them to do a tannoy announcement. I walked around to find someone who wasn’t serving but didn’t want to not be able to see the car so instead I went back out to stand by the car as thought that might be best incase the child woke. I was in two minds to call the police as I don’t know how long this child’s been sleeping in there.
Out comes and man with a couple of bags of shopping pushing a buggy. I ask him if it’s his car/child and tell him how irresponsible it is to leave child alone in the car. He is instantly abrasive telling me to mind my own and he has a hard day and stop judging him. We go back and forth with me just generally trying to make him understand that it’s extremely irresponsible as it’s freezing. I tell him I had taken a photo of the car and was going to call police if he hadn’t returned. He starts getting annoyed it being GDPR and I’m breaking the law taking a photo of his car with his child in it and tells me he is phoning to police on me for taking a photo of his car.
Anyway due to him becoming aggressive the fact he has left the child I decide to just phone them anyway as I didn’t know if it would
escalate and it’s dark outside with no one else in close proximity.
He comes at me to hand the phone over so he can talk to them himself, I obviously refuse. We have a bit of back and forth and eventually off he speeds in his car.

I rung my DH in the way home as I needed to offload and was obviously shaken. He has gone off at me telling me I should have minded my own business, that im a ‘Karen’ and I should have done nothing.

Now I genuinely feel so bad. I’m not usually one to judge people and after was thinking what if he is just having the worst time and trying to do his best and I’ve now reported him neglecting his child. What would you have done in this situation? Should I have just made sure he returned then left. AIBU or you have called the police. I fear I’ve done the wrong thing!

Same.

Five minutes is nothing and many people know their child will sleep for one cycle in the car quite happily. I can't count the number of times I've gone back and forth to the car knowing my little ones will absolutely not wake up until at least X o clock and mine just don't transfer asleep.

Obviously the weather and visibility of the car is crucial and he made a bad call, should have nipped into a petrol station or little local shop with parking outside for essentials and definitely been less than 5 mins. But I wouldn't have kept on. You made sure the child was safe and made your point. I would not have called the police.

We have specific laws regarding children in cars. Not just covered under leaving children unattended. As you can’t leave them in a car even if you are in sight of the car.

as I said in Australia even leaving them to pay for petrol is technically illegal. I used to do it with all 3 as with 2 toddlers and a baby walking across with so many cars seemed a bigger risk. I would try to use pay at pump places or fill up when I didn’t have the kids. But many Australian mums would flame you for saying you left them to pay for petrol. Maybe cause of the heat it’s seen as much bigger deal.

Hmm, I would probably have just waited till the person came out to the car

No way would I have confronted them.

OP edited it

Yes, but if you click on the edit button you can see the original text. It did say the child was roughly 2 years old. I also think the window of time for editing is quite short, but I don't know exactly.

I think you were right to look out for the child and tell the dad you were concerned but I probably wouldn't have rung the police. You just did what you thought was best so don't worry too much about it.

In NZ you're not allowed to leave kids for an unreasonable length of time or without having made reasonable provisions for them -- so basically it's open to interpretation. I know a lot of dads do leave them in more circumstances than mums do. We are all doing our best and using our discretion on what's safe but sometimes we do make silly decisions.

Sorry to be pedantic but below is the original post, copied from the edit history (the edit history shows all versions and you have to scroll down to see the oldest). Doesn't mention age of child. Original post was at 7.25. First reply was at 7.26. Edit was at 7.29. So OP updated the post with the child's age after the first reply.

Moorethemerrier·Original·Yesterday 19:25
Need some advice. If I handled this correctly and what others would have done
Pulled into shops today and car next to me has a child asleep in the car. It’s 1degrees here today and has been snowing. I stood by the car for 5 mins and took a photo of the number plate to go into to shops to ask for them to do a tannoy announcement. I walked around to find someone who wasn’t serving but didn’t want to not be able to see the car so instead I went back out to stand by the car as thought that might be best incase the child woke. I was in two minds to call the police as I don’t know how long this child’s been sleeping in there.
Out comes and man with a couple of bags of shopping pushing a buggy. I ask him if it’s his car/child and tell him how irresponsible it is to leave child alone in the car. He is instantly abrasive telling me to mind my own and he has a hard day and stop judging him. We go back and forth with me just generally trying to make him understand that it’s extremely irresponsible as it’s freezing. I tell him I had taken a photo of the car and was going to call police if he hadn’t returned. He starts getting annoyed it being GDPR and I’m breaking the law taking a photo of his car with his child in it and tells me he is phoning to police on me for taking a photo of his car.
Anyway due to him becoming aggressive the fact he has left the child I decide to just phone them anyway as I didn’t know if it would
escalate and it’s dark outside with no one else in close proximity.
He comes at me to hand the phone over so he can talk to them himself, I obviously refuse. We have a bit of back and forth and eventually off he speeds in his car.
I rung my DH in the way home as I needed to offload and was obviously shaken. He has gone off at me telling me I should have minded my own business, that im a ‘Karen’ and I should have done nothing.
Now I genuinely feel so bad. I’m not usually one to judge people and after was thinking what if he is just having the worst time and trying to do his best and I’ve now reported him neglecting his child. What would you have done in this situation? Should I have just made sure he returned then left. AIBU or you have called the police. I fear I’ve done the wrong thing!

five minutes is too long but I do wonder what actual harm could have come to the child in that time, assuming the car was locked and they had warm clothing on (different in summer when hot and no open window, that would have made me immediately concerned)

I didn’t leave them for 5 minutes but I do confess to have pulled up at petrol stations and nipped in to get something when they were sleeping. Shoot me now.

I would have hung around discretely but assuming the parent did come back back within a few minutes, not done anything else

I don’t think you were necessarily wrong to bring it up with the parent tho.

@Clearinguptheclutter OP said she stayed by the car for 5 minutes, but she wouldn't have known how long it had already been parked there for.

I saw a guy get out of the car in front of me in a supermarket car park. He looked in the back of the car, walked away a bit, looked round then went into the store. I got out of the car and in the back of his car in a baby seat, was a tiny baby, no more than a couple of weeks old. I stood there fuming that anyone would do that.
My adult daughter came out of the store, and she was shocked, but told me to ring the police, which I did and gave them the registration.
After 10 minutes, the guy came out, and I stood in front of the driver's door and lost it with him. He said he'd only been gone two minutes and he needed milk for the baby. I told him I'd rung the police and he got really irate with me, and my daughter told me to just let him get in the car. I did, and he drove off.
I rang the police back and explained that he'd left, and that was that, though I was upset and angry still.
I later had a phone call from the police asking me for all the details again, then I had a phone call from social services, telling me I'd done exactly the right thing. Apparently, it's illegal to leave a child under a certain age (sorry, can't remember now) unattended in a car at all, even for a minute.
They told me they were going to visit him, and they thought that by the time his partner had had a go at him, as well as me, them and the police, he hopefully wouldn't do it again

yes I edited my post to add the child’s rough age.

Just to clarify my husband wasn’t justifying the man’s actions. We do have children and he agreed it was totally irresponsible. DH and I have spoken and he is annoyed I then confronted him instead of walking away when he returned to the car and could have put myself in danger.

Glad to see others would have done the same. Im hoping it was extremely bad judgement from him and he never does it again!

Context is everything

Was it a shop attached to a fuel garage

Was it one of those small Coop types with the parking right out the front

Or was it an ASDA superstore where the parking is below ground

Because in scenarios 1 and 2 he'd likely have been 5 minutes or so and you've definitely been a nosy busy body (and yes I've run in to get things and left my kids in the shops at that age).

Also hypothermia is not going to set in if he's been in there 5-10 minutes 😂 does the inside of your car freeze when the temp goes below zero....no it doesn't

Scenario 3 is obviously completely different

I think you overreacted. Nothing will happen to a 2 year old in a car seat in the 10 min that it takes to go to the shop, particularly if they are asleep.

I would have told you to mind your own business too.

Your H is a pig

Maybe he was dashing in for nappies or child medicine or some kind of emergency

We've all had to make split second parenting decisions when one or more of the kids has fell asleep in the car

You've come across as judgmental and holier than thou OP

After all parents have been known to leave their sleeping kids in an unlocked holiday apartment abroad whilst they've gone off for dinner haven't they and they weren't charged with a crime

Aah, thanks.

That's not being pedantic at all, just putting me straight when I was incorrect 👍🏻

I don't think it's EVER acceptable to leave kids alone in the car, even if they're sleeping or poorly.

I have twins and would either carry the two car seats, or when they were bigger put one in a sling and the other on a hip seat. Yes it was really annoying, especially when they wouldn't go back to sleep, but that's life.

@Moorethemerrier you were absolutely right to call the police. A child's welfare should always come first. I hope the police get in touch with this individual.

To nip in the shop to get some milk? Wow.

there is also the argument, especially with toddlers, that it’s mostly likely safer to leave them in the car than negotiate them across a petrol forecourt. I had a terrifying moment once when I momentarily let go of my not quite 2 year old in a busy car park when needing to get the Newborn out. For very short periods I decided they were both safer locked in the car after that.

First off - thanks for doing something about this and not just ignoring it. More people should do the same.

Second, I'm in two minds about phoning the police. It was good to let the father know you had watched the car and we're worried about the child, but I would have left it at that. Although they disagreed and were abusive to you, that doesn't mean your intervention had no effect. It quite likely would have made them think twice in future. Often people can be quite aggressive when they know they've done something wrong and have been caught out - it's not always necessary to try to force them to admit it in the heat of the moment.

That said, maybe it's not a bad thing to have this on record just in case the father makes a habit of neglect.

I'm scratching my head at your DH calling you a "Karen" though. What's his problem?

Two year olds are old enough to undo their car seat straps, open a car door and go out looking for a parent in the car park.

Motorists are looking for parking spaces, other cars, and adult pedestrians, they aren't looking for a roughly two foot tall child possibly wearing dark clothing in the dark. Its dangerous to leave toddlers on their own. They can get into a lot more danger than a baby as they have the capability to get out on their own without the understanding of an older child of the dangers of traffic.

OK I've name changed to say that I've left 2yo DD asleep in the car before, and run into the shop.
I leave my work phone in the car, on a call to my personal phone, which I have on speaker as I go round the shop.
I wouldn't do a big shop that way, but I can easily fill a couple bags of shopping in about 10 minutes, especially if getting nappies.
It's maybe not ideal parenting but sometimes you weigh up the situation and make do with a less than ideal option.
I don't think you were out of order to express your concern to the driver, OP, but I would also take umbrage to someone lecturing me and threatening to call the police, and I would ask them to delete or edit the photo so that my child's face wasn't vvisible.
The risks, as I see them, are that someone steals the car, or crashes into it, or breaks into it and steals the child. Terrible, terrible things, but statistically very unlikely. Probably less likely than the risk of harming your child because you're using your phone while driving - which I'm very strict about but I know several parents who will quickly check a text or pull up a spotify playlist while they're driving around. I'd give them a bit of side eye and probably gently comment, but I wouldn't lecture them or call the police. We've all made a one-off poor decision in a moment of exhaustion or desperation.

So you do you and do what you're happy with.

Everyone has experiences.

Many years ago a friend had her car badly shunted on a garage forecourt whilst she was inside paying for the petrol thanks to some old lady not in control of her car who really shouldn't have been driving still! Her car was written off. She was very grateful she had taken the two kids in with her to pay as she sometimes did leave them in the car if there was no queue to pay.

That has always put me off EVER leaving my kids alone in the car.

You did the right thing calling the Police, yes the dad of the child may have been under pressure his wife may be ill , or he's a single parent in that case he needs help . But why should you have been abused for taking control of things .
NEVER BE A BYSTANDER anyone

Obviously all children are different but my DD could undo her car seat at 2, the child could have escaped from the car, they could have been taken, or frozen. You definity did the right thing

@Isittimeformynapyet

i think when you looked at the edit you didn't scroll down to the original post at 19.25, butter read the edited post

The request for child's age was 19.28
the edited version 19.29