To ask why you support the farmers, regarding inheritance tax?

[WheresFluffy]

Just that, really.
I'm interested to know why people support, or not, the farmers regarding the inheritance tax changes.

YABU - it's been done to death
YANBU - learning why people believe things is important.

Completely agree.

He really hasn't. Its policy shows he has zero care for farmers, our countryside and our food security.

And I don't disagree with that, I live in an area where I could buy 1 acre of land for 50k-100k depending on the land. A small farm of around 100 acres easily runs into well over 3 million, if I went to another area of the country it wouldn't.

I agree also that the land is over valued massively but thats the reality of it. If you put IHT in now many farms in places where land is at such ridiculous prices they will be affected. The land prices will come down but in the meantime many SMEs are affected, there is no two ways around that.

Recognising that land prices are ridiculous is one thing, dropping them over night is fiscally irresponsible where borrowing is concerned.

I agree also that private investment in agricultural land requires a massive review. Subsidies are currently tied to eco friendly/wildlife measure so there is a massive amount of greenwashing going on as well as tax breaks.

It is an entirely shit situation that has been woefully exploited but the people it impacts most is the SME farmers. We need those people, all of us who want to eat need them so the proposed policy needs to be reviewed to lessen the imact on them.

If billionaires hadn't used this as an inheritance tax avoidance scheme, this would never have had to happen.

Why is it those people never get blamed, instead the government get the flack for trying to stop profiteering.

Reference also the bloody 90% of winter fuel allowance claimants who didn't need it hiding behind the 10% who desperately did.

Don't allow yourselves to be used as a human shield for grifters and bounders. 🙄

He hasnt just decided it on a whim. It's been costed out and must add up.

Naturally farmers are going to be up in arms about losing money.

Cant see a Starmer U Turn.

Gifting isn't so straightforward though in many ways....
No one knows when they will die. Sometimes children die before their parents.
Gifting has implications around no longer getting benefit from the asset while in reality many farmers literally continue working til they drop.

It's really not so straightforward to say just do this.

Google it, that will tell you exactly what’s happening and why

i support the farmers

No. I don’t support them. Everyone pays inheritance tax.

Fully support them.

Exactly.
So shows the treasury are totally incompetent for not thinking this through. Of they've done it intentionally.

I support them but I don’t admit to knowing all of the ins and outs. As basic as it sounds, I’d almost like to see a Clarksons Farm episode as I have certainly found this programme to be very educational and informative over the years. I think Clarkson would find a way of explaining and getting the issues across to a large number of people.

I am not putting this at Clarksons door. I’d say the same if it was Jamie Oliver Farm or Lewis Hamilton farm.

I support them. The margins are wafer thin in farming and only farms with lots of land can make a profit. Farmers work such long hours up at dawn if milking. Very late finishes if harvesting. If they have to pay death duties every generation farms will be gone by the next generation.

IHT aside, surely it’s a more fundamental question of why farming isn’t profitable, or as profitable as it should be for an essential industry.

My understanding is farmers have little direct route to market and are beholden to large supermarket chains setting prices and taking huge profits. There’s odd economics in that supermarkets will artificially keep the price of some things low but fleece both farmers and consumers on other things.

Some food should simply not be as cheap as it is, which is an uncomfortable statement for many, but we know where the profit is going.

For small farmers, for example 5-600 acres, the farmer can just about make enough to live on, rarely any more. If he/she is hit with IHT he has to sell a whole or part of his land. That land is the equivalent of a tool used by a tradesman. Once he goes below that amount of land, his tool, his business will fail. It is as simple as that. This land may have a financial value but if the owner is forced to sell to pay IHT, he's finished and another source of UK food production is lost.

I am not a farmer, nor am I from a farming family but I live in a rural county where we all understand the true value of food producing land.

But these generational farms aren't the ones who will be affected by land values being brought back to sensible price. The land will have been bought and paid for years prior. In reality this will bring those in the £3m valuation down also.

Just using the rise in the past two years of over £2k an acre. Land has become an investors wet dream. A return of 20% in two years. Something needs to stop a rise like that.

Like you, I'd like to see common sense applied to the greening aspect in terms of eco friendly ideas. One suggestion right off the top of my head, How feasible would it be to create rooftop gardens with wildflowers on supermarket buildings. Make that part of their licensing and could be used to offset CO2. We are a nation with some of the best engineers in the world. I'm sure we could come up with schemes like this.

I've worked in wills and probate for 20 years with lots of farming clients who I respect enormously. I don't think the new iht rules are too bad. In practice it will be farms worth over 3 million that pay tax, when you take into account other reliefs available. Most farms have buildings that have been turned into productive holiday homes- these can be sold if necessary to pay the iht bill.
The likes of Clarkson and Dyson will find a way to evade tax, as the rich usually do.
I do however wish there was some plan so that land isn't bought up by developers, and so that those that want to get involved in sustainable farming and smallholdings can do so and make a profit. Its pretty much impossible to be able to get involved in farming if you haven't been born into it. We need more sustainable small scale younger farmers to get involved in the profession and I feel the government have missed an opportunity for food production and sustainable farming.

I think it’s a really interesting conversation. I’m inclined to believe that no one likes disruption in their sector but it happens and it’s part of history and often beneficial in the long term. I also can’t help thinking farmers weren’t that worried about the disruption they caused to British businesses when they overwhelmingly voted for brexit 😉

What data do you want?

You are right of course, it is a fundamental question of how we have allowed a very small group of very large businesses to hold our food resources in their hands.

We've been sold the idea of very cheap food from friendly neighbourhood shops which are in reality very large businesses that run not only with the thumbscrews on their most basic suppliers, but also using the welfare system to subsidise their use of minimum wage.

I don't because i don't see that farms are any different to other family owned businesses. Whilst there are a small number of family farms going to be affected, I can't feel sorry for the huge landowners and gentleman farmers eg Clarkson who thought they could avoid inheritance taxes by buying agricultural land. With £1m allowance per person on top of the £325 each you get, that's a substantial tax free sum to pass on. Farmers can also transfer the deeds to their successor and hope to live long enough not to be affected by inheritance tax

Unfortunately if you do agree with the changes you're just accused of not understanding farming, probably by some townie who thinks they know it all as they visit the local 'petting farm' once a year.

Yes I support the farmers. As with everything to do with government I think that a lot of this anger could have been avoided if there had been consultation and notice - I heard today that DEFRA were only told days beforehand that this was to be in the budget.

Absolutely change the IHT rules but this blanket one size fits all approach is a disaster in the making. It seems to me that it's an attitude of "all people who own land/farm are rich bastards, let's tax them to death". Without doubt people have exploited loopholes - that's nothing new - and those loopholes should be closed, but a more nuanced and targetted approach would have, in my opinion been a better way forward. From where I am, in the rural West Midlands, they give the impression that they really don't understand or care about the countryside, and that's frightening. This is from their 2024 manifesto "Support farmers in Britain to grow more food." and this is a quote from Keir Mather, Labour MP for Selby in April this year "Rural voters are trusting Labour again – we must not let them down". Not much support or trust now I suspect. I did not and never would vote for Reform, nor did I vote for Brexit before anyone tells me it's all my own fault because of that!

War in the Ukraine has had a huge impact on this country, as have the recent floods in Spain and I don't believe that things like that are going to go away anytime soon. I do not want all my food to come from abroad, with the environmental impact and the reduced welfare standards - we should be aiming to produce more food not less, and that's what will happen if so many of these farms go to the wall.

One last thing - I don't think many people are aware that this doesn't just affect farming - to quote the Family Business UK group "family businesses across the UK are equally affected and the consequences of removing business relief are just as devastating. FBUK calculates that 85,000 family businesses are passed on to the next generation every year."

This pretty much. Most farms family owned - land rich, possibly decent cars and houses tied to the farm but work all days and hours god sends.

The land might be worth over the limit but they aren't going to have funds to pay the tax bill unless agriculture land is sold - for what more houses?

https://www.instagram.com/p/DChGv3FIzXi/?igsh=bW9hMWYyZWljZjMy

I’ll leave this here.Right to Roam. Why should anybody support farmers when they don’t support right to roam for those not lucky enough to live on £3 million pound farms.

The mortgages on many generational farms are ways to borrow money against the value of the land. There are not many SMEs without some level of borrowing against the land they own. So yes many are impacted.

Supermarkets will plead poverty they always do, the roofing reinforcement would cost squillions. Nice idea though