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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask why you support the farmers, regarding inheritance tax?

491 replies

WheresFluffy · 19/11/2024 14:36

Just that, really.
I'm interested to know why people support, or not, the farmers regarding the inheritance tax changes.

YABU - it's been done to death
YANBU - learning why people believe things is important.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
MarkingBad · 20/11/2024 19:13

ARealitycheck · 20/11/2024 18:32

I agree with you insofar as we need to be looking at more food production not less. Are our farmers producing this at good value for money with regard to the return on subsidies, I'd suspect not. I know you work in agriculture as did I in regard to sales into the farming community. I suspect you will have seen the wastage in machinery not cared or maintained. Very much in the knowledge that eg the quad bike is disposable, get a new one on the subsidy payment soon.

There are bigger issues that are industry wide.

The main issues of why farms cannot produce a good return on investment is partly down to the regulations and standards being incredibly high in the UK, partly down to sheer lack of investment for various reasons, partly down to the supermarkets middlemen buyers thrubscrewing prices, and partly due farming system breakdown in times of war and bad weather, global politics etc.

Personally I would not want standards to drop for food and its production, but it does make us uncompetitive on the global market.

We as a nation have completely sleep walked into the supermarkets holding onto our food resources and our purse strings. They control food prices, they force the destruction of crops in glut years despite there being people who go hungry in this country to control food prices, this utterly boils my blood. It is not beyond our wit to preserve food, we've been doing that since the dawn of time. Some do have farm gate sales but it's the access to customers that is the issue.

The access to market has been entirely restricted for many farms by lack of agricultural infrastructure like nearby abbatoirs and livestock markets, farm shops and many are beholden to the supermarket middleman buyers or big dairy corps for their income. It has utterly stultified the ability of farmers to improve their incomes by producing smaller and more diverse crops that would benefit everybody and help prevent whoelsale losses in times of poor weather and war. Since the 60s we've been conned into producing near monocultures, restricting the availability of foods and variety within those foods thanks to the EU vegetable lists we still have to stick to.

Smaller farms can get a bit of an edge where they have access to different markets, and have teh time and expertise to go into small scale production of speciality foods but these often have to be near urban and higher populated areas to make it fly Many farms do not have that access or time to produce.

The lack of investment is appalling. From our young farmers having few colleges to choose from to train to the access to land for new entrants and tennants. Farming incomes are often too low for real investment and again the market isn't always there. As a technologically advanced industry, we are going to lose our edge because of this. The age of the average farmer keeps increasing, this also breeds a lack of investment because the new entrants that were there just aren;t for many reasons.

Not entirely sure how you can global and weather proof farming, this has always been an issue throughout our history. However increasing our self sufficiency to around 80% again would be a start to help bolster the industry.

First though we should wrestle our markets back from the all powerful supermarket and invest in on farm production or local food processing i.e. cheese making. Just a handful of businesses control our food, this should never have been allowed but we al let that happen.

It's too big a subject really.

Meltdown247 · 20/11/2024 19:24

I support the farmers. This is just another stupid Labour culture wa. Farmers are amazing and if they are taxed into selling the land to a solar farm we will find food security will go out of the window. With the war on Europes doorstep there are a few things that seem important: food, fuel and steel security are critical. Starmer seems ri want us to be all out on collective farms though!

MarkingBad · 20/11/2024 19:27

BIossomtoes · 20/11/2024 18:35

What did we eat pre 1984 when farmers were liable for IHT like everyone else?

We paid way more for food, we had better access to local food we spent more on British produced food.

MarkingBad · 20/11/2024 19:28

AquaPeer · 20/11/2024 18:36

There are lots of countries where farmers pay IHT- what do they eat?!

They pay way more for their food, it is often locally produced and highly thought of. We do not have that culture here in the same way.

BigFatLiar · 20/11/2024 19:31

What's the difference in inheritance tax for farm as opposed to any other family business?

venus7 · 20/11/2024 19:35

Sii · 19/11/2024 17:04

To pay the inheritance bill they will have to sell their land. As soon as you start spilling up land it becomes even less profitable. Food/agriculture is needed and we shouldn't be relying on imports although we are likely to see a shift towards more imports and less domestic production when farmers need to sell their asses and home to pay the bill

Farmers 'need to sell their asses'? Not sure this was being asked about.......

venus7 · 20/11/2024 19:38

JRSKSSBH · 19/11/2024 17:20

THIS IS SO IMPORTANT. Food security is of massive importance to any nation state. The IHT attack is underpinned by a desire to kill off small farms in order to achieve net zero. Vince Dale quoted in the papers at the w/e saying people need to eat less meat and drink less milk. How better to achieve both of those things by making them so costly people can't? The land is also needed for solar farms.

Attack? Kill off?

venus7 · 20/11/2024 19:43

EasyComfortDishes · 19/11/2024 17:41

We should jack IHT altogether. It’s raises a tiny amount in the scheme if things and imagine all the people who would come here and invest here if they didn’t have to pay IHT. That’s a growth policy.

That is indeed; the rich become richer.

suburburban · 20/11/2024 19:46

HeBeaverandSheBeaver · 20/11/2024 18:57

I dont want to use other countries for food. Particularly with Putin and Biden kicking off

I want to control our food prices to some extent

I don't want cheap shit full of chemicals or meat full of crap or fed crap from the US

Farmers are not cash rich. They have expensive equipment and land but that's like a doctor giving away a hospital or his drugs. You can't have one without the other.

I want to go after Amazon and Starbucks etc not pensioners and farmers and private schools. It feels vindictive

Its actually scary

I remember a Christian preacher Barry Smith discussing food Control of populations in the 90s and the New world order

We should be supporting the farmers

AMFA · 20/11/2024 19:47

BIossomtoes · 20/11/2024 18:35

What did we eat pre 1984 when farmers were liable for IHT like everyone else?

Farmers had far more autonomy on where they could sell their produce to and for how much.
Right now they are at the mercy of supermarkets and their tendency to screw suppliers down to the last penny. The 90s was a really shit time for farmers but the government recognised the importance of food security and made changes to help farmers through.

To be fair supermarkets do this with other food suppliers, not just farmers.

This is not comparable to someone having student loans to pay back. This is food security on the line. Farmers (and it’s not just the very wealthy ones who will be affected, please stop saying this it’s just sounding like Labour bots at this stage) being landed with IHT bills will have to sell land, (it’s not a simple thing like letting people camp to make a few more pounds, diversification needs investment in order to work) that land will likely not be farmed again, directly affecting our food security.

Have a look around MN today - how many threads about Russia and the possibility of war? As an island do you not think that food security is one of the main things we need to look after? Wish Labour valued them.

mumda · 20/11/2024 19:48

Someone's waiting to buy the land and not grow #your# food on it .
Food security of this country is at risk.

Juced · 20/11/2024 19:49

I fail to have that much sympathy really, farmers by and large voted for Brexit to avoid farming tax that the EU we’re going to impose and how did that work out for them. They voted to protect their own interests but it’s the masses that have had to endure the fall out! I saw two young female farmers who protesting and actually suggested the government could cut benefits instead of taxing farmers…the entitlement is astounding!

suburburban · 20/11/2024 19:51

Juced · 20/11/2024 19:49

I fail to have that much sympathy really, farmers by and large voted for Brexit to avoid farming tax that the EU we’re going to impose and how did that work out for them. They voted to protect their own interests but it’s the masses that have had to endure the fall out! I saw two young female farmers who protesting and actually suggested the government could cut benefits instead of taxing farmers…the entitlement is astounding!

Why can't they?

They were fine cutting the pensioners fuel allowance

Juced · 20/11/2024 19:56

Again it’s so overblown, pensioners haven’t actually lost anything because they’ve gained more due to the triple lock and the poorest can apply for for pension credit. Pensioners are the wealthiest demographic the vast majority did not need the the WFA. They also voted Brexit and for selfish reasons and in turn shafted the rest of us!

ARealitycheck · 20/11/2024 19:57

MarkingBad · 20/11/2024 19:13

There are bigger issues that are industry wide.

The main issues of why farms cannot produce a good return on investment is partly down to the regulations and standards being incredibly high in the UK, partly down to sheer lack of investment for various reasons, partly down to the supermarkets middlemen buyers thrubscrewing prices, and partly due farming system breakdown in times of war and bad weather, global politics etc.

Personally I would not want standards to drop for food and its production, but it does make us uncompetitive on the global market.

We as a nation have completely sleep walked into the supermarkets holding onto our food resources and our purse strings. They control food prices, they force the destruction of crops in glut years despite there being people who go hungry in this country to control food prices, this utterly boils my blood. It is not beyond our wit to preserve food, we've been doing that since the dawn of time. Some do have farm gate sales but it's the access to customers that is the issue.

The access to market has been entirely restricted for many farms by lack of agricultural infrastructure like nearby abbatoirs and livestock markets, farm shops and many are beholden to the supermarket middleman buyers or big dairy corps for their income. It has utterly stultified the ability of farmers to improve their incomes by producing smaller and more diverse crops that would benefit everybody and help prevent whoelsale losses in times of poor weather and war. Since the 60s we've been conned into producing near monocultures, restricting the availability of foods and variety within those foods thanks to the EU vegetable lists we still have to stick to.

Smaller farms can get a bit of an edge where they have access to different markets, and have teh time and expertise to go into small scale production of speciality foods but these often have to be near urban and higher populated areas to make it fly Many farms do not have that access or time to produce.

The lack of investment is appalling. From our young farmers having few colleges to choose from to train to the access to land for new entrants and tennants. Farming incomes are often too low for real investment and again the market isn't always there. As a technologically advanced industry, we are going to lose our edge because of this. The age of the average farmer keeps increasing, this also breeds a lack of investment because the new entrants that were there just aren;t for many reasons.

Not entirely sure how you can global and weather proof farming, this has always been an issue throughout our history. However increasing our self sufficiency to around 80% again would be a start to help bolster the industry.

First though we should wrestle our markets back from the all powerful supermarket and invest in on farm production or local food processing i.e. cheese making. Just a handful of businesses control our food, this should never have been allowed but we al let that happen.

It's too big a subject really.

Edited

A lot of what you write is true. I wasn't aware of supermarkets having produce destroyed and if they were that needs stamping out, as you say there are plenty hungry people out there. As is the ability to preserve as you say.

The current issue though, seems to be that land prices have increased way beyond inflation, and like it or not, most in the know do link that to subsidy and IHT investors. Is this the right way to remove these parasites (including Dyson and Clarkson) from misusing these schemes, I don't know. But having seen the average farmer round my way. I can categorically sat poverty is not something he is suffering.

EasternStandard · 20/11/2024 20:01

Juced · 20/11/2024 19:56

Again it’s so overblown, pensioners haven’t actually lost anything because they’ve gained more due to the triple lock and the poorest can apply for for pension credit. Pensioners are the wealthiest demographic the vast majority did not need the the WFA. They also voted Brexit and for selfish reasons and in turn shafted the rest of us!

Age UK don't think it's overblown for pensioners, citing 2.5m in hardship. Nor the reports on more pushed into poverty.

It's not hard to see why, basic pension is low and many will be on that

Lovely13 · 20/11/2024 20:06

Labour introduced this without, allegedly, consulting the ministry of agriculture. Was this a grand gesture at taxing millionaire ‘farmers’ without talking to the ones who actually produce our food?

laraitopbanana · 20/11/2024 20:08

I support the farmers. Noone should have to sell their home and business to pay their inheritance tax.

BIossomtoes · 20/11/2024 20:09

They also voted Brexit and for selfish reasons and in turn shafted the rest of us!

Not all of us - I don’t know anyone my age who did. Equally I don’t know anyone my age who will suffer any hardship through not receiving an extra £150. You’d expect Age UK to over egg it, they’re a campaigning organisation after all.

Juced · 20/11/2024 20:11

If you break it down the top rate of WFA of £300 works out at something like £5 odd per week I can’t honestly see that makes any difference to someone’s income…and like I said they’ve gained more with the triple lock!

NoneGiven · 20/11/2024 20:11

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

PeonyBlushSuede · 20/11/2024 20:12

Myattention · 19/11/2024 18:23

I support them but I don’t admit to knowing all of the ins and outs. As basic as it sounds, I’d almost like to see a Clarksons Farm episode as I have certainly found this programme to be very educational and informative over the years. I think Clarkson would find a way of explaining and getting the issues across to a large number of people.

I am not putting this at Clarksons door. I’d say the same if it was Jamie Oliver Farm or Lewis Hamilton farm.

The trouble with Clarkson is he has admitted publicly when he first bought the farm that it was bought to dodge IHT

So he is part of the reasons the government have sought to bring in these changes to close the loopholes

Toastandbutterand · 20/11/2024 20:12

AMFA · 20/11/2024 19:47

Farmers had far more autonomy on where they could sell their produce to and for how much.
Right now they are at the mercy of supermarkets and their tendency to screw suppliers down to the last penny. The 90s was a really shit time for farmers but the government recognised the importance of food security and made changes to help farmers through.

To be fair supermarkets do this with other food suppliers, not just farmers.

This is not comparable to someone having student loans to pay back. This is food security on the line. Farmers (and it’s not just the very wealthy ones who will be affected, please stop saying this it’s just sounding like Labour bots at this stage) being landed with IHT bills will have to sell land, (it’s not a simple thing like letting people camp to make a few more pounds, diversification needs investment in order to work) that land will likely not be farmed again, directly affecting our food security.

Have a look around MN today - how many threads about Russia and the possibility of war? As an island do you not think that food security is one of the main things we need to look after? Wish Labour valued them.

What I'm really interested in, is why so many Tory voters think Labour should be supporting the farmers when the Tory's didn't.

The farms that have been sold in the last 10 years have started going to very wealthy people. They don't want to farm for national security. Why are Tory voters saying it's on poor people to farm to provide this security. Why are they so against rich people being deterred from buying the farms?

Not one single policy idea regarding farming from the Tories has been about food security.
So what the holy fuck are you all actually whinging about?

Judecb · 20/11/2024 20:13

Unfortunately over 80% of farmers voted for Brexit. These new tarriffs/ taxes are to recoup the billions of pounds lost thanks to leaving the EU. While I sympathise with some issues, there is a sense of 'you reap what you sow'.

NoneGiven · 20/11/2024 20:13

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.