Trainees no longer ready for workplace

[Kukcoo]

I used to love having trainees allocated to us. They were so enthusiastic, hardworking and a breath of fresh air. It was great to see them develop.

The last few have acted like they're doing us a favour if they turn up by lunchtime because they could have called in sick for nothing. Seriously can't be bothered doing the basics and expect everything to be done for them. Little respect for anyone else and the huge support they're being given. Won't meet a deadline, because this would affect their mental health and basically impinges on their human rights.

They all still expect to qualify and will be passed by the provider unless they do something truly dangerous, but they won't have the real experience or skills to join the workplace and get on with a job.

I'm barely even a different generation, but wouldn't have dreamed of acting the way they do when I was learning and felt I had to prove myself. AIBU to expect standards to be the same?

I’m not sure it is 😁

Ah dear. Needless nastiness is only popular here.

Just as taking everything very seriously seems to be... And I think most people would agree that someone taking time off for an “urgent medical appointment” that turns out to be for lip filler is fair game!

So is lip filler.

I agree there's also a laziness in employers. There is apparently a skills shortage - there might be, but instead of all chasing the same employees with the skillset there's no will (or desire to spend money on) training people.

Entry level roles demand 2-5 years experience. Not exactly entry level.

And it's dangerous. Shouldn't even be allowed in my view.

There was an article in the Times at the weekend about the cost to the NHS of people going overseas for cosmetic treatment and it going wrong. I digress but it's kind of linked to this discussion - people so obsessed with social media that they can't cope in real life.

I have co-morbid disabilities (all diagnosed) which aren't visible, and I never tick the box. Partly out of a concern that it won't be 'visible' enough (appreciate you're not saying that, but I worry) and partly out of a concern that because it isn't 'visible', I'll be lumped in with people who use mental health terminology to describe themselves where it's not appropriate.

I don't sit on interview panels but I've heard from colleagues who do that being unable to interview anyone who hadn't ticked the box, due to time constraints, is something that's increasingly common over the past couple of years.

We have a skills shortage in our office. I would like nothing more than to hire a school leaver and train them up to do things the correct way (unlike many of our competitors nowadays).

Unfortunately it takes a few years to train people to the level that I need now. Candidates in my industry don't have the right level of experience we need and if we take someone on that has the right amount of experience in terms of years, the work they've been given isn't compatible with what we do.

My firm hasn't changed in what we do and how we do it, it just seems that all of our competitors have dumbed down and relied on software to do most of the work (and the output they produce has dropped in quality and accuracy also).

It's a massive struggle at the moment, but I'm hoping either our of our work experience students will become permanent to at least work on getting the future sorted.

Doesn't help my skills gap right now unfortunately, but it's not for the want of trying.

That may be the case for some but we invest very heavily in training and development and pay well. We have still seen the issues described in this thread.

For SMEs the cost of training someone who then immediately leaves is a real problem. Its a big investment to recruit and train a graduate or school leaver for them to promptly leave to go to someone recruiting the "ready baked" article.

However the issue of this thread is not an expecting juniors to come fully able to do the job in question from day 1. Rather the issue is the basic work ethic and social practices in a shared workplace such as turning up on time, not letting people down, being considerate of others in the workforce, etc etc

It’s not tick the box and you’re guaranteed an interview though, it’s if you meet all the requirements for the role and you’ve ticked the box, you’ll be interviewed. So if there are 8 people over the line, you want to interview 5, and 3 of your 8 ticked the box, you’ll see them plus the best 2 who didn’t. There might have been another 20 applicants ticking the box, but you don’t interview them if the application didn’t pass.

I have a non-visible disability and I don’t tick the box on job applications because I don’t completely trust that in some cases, this scheme isn’t abused by employers as a means of identifying and not employing those who HR/management perceive as difficult/high maintenance/requiring costly adjustments and time off. While some employers are undoubtedly well-intentioned, many are not. I’ve only disclosed my condition at work when I’ve been reasonably confident I can trust my manager and they’ve seen I can do my job well.

@AbigailBCD
Well yes for GCSEs, as she will be compared to those who have been spoon fed and her results won't be as good as theirs.

Interesting thread. I work in HR for a large insurance company. Our accountancy grads/trainees are generally excellent and hard working, eager to learn and have a good attitude.

The contact centre ones are a challenge for us, and it’s got worse over ten years. We actively promote from within- several MDs etc have come from being trainees in the call centre, but you have to turn up on time, not mess around, not phone in sick because your fake nail broke and needs an emergency manicure…

We offer cv workshops, interview practice etc with local high schools to help them get work ready but honestly turning up on time not in a tracksuit would be a big improvement.

Related to this, ime, is willingness to attend the office. I’m always astounded that the younger the staff member, the more likely they are to avoid coming in at all costs. Not turning up to team office days because they are having a parcel delivered, or need to walk their neighbour’s auntie’s dog. Often these are people who live walking distance to the office!

I feel quite sad that they won’t be making the friends and networks we all did, by coming in to the office regularly (and going for drinks on a Thursday or Friday!)

The problem with the 'younger cohort' approach of slacking off, turning up late, not meeting deadlines and expecting your colleagues to be ok with it is that in teaching (as per the OP) and I'm sure many other professions, if you do this, you are dropping your massively stretched colleagues in it.

Teachers are all flat out with their own workload. If their trainee doesn't meet a deadline, that's extra work for the mentor. If they're late, they need to be covered. If they're 'off sick' because they had an essay due, then that's more work for the mentor who has likely found out at the last minute that they're now going to be teaching the class. It is rude and disrespectful to the person who is giving up their own time for no extra pay to train you to constantly add to their workload by not doing the basic minimum.

And the suggestion that trainees should be failed for this is laughable. The government has basically said PGCE providers need to accept anyone onto the course and no one is allowed to fail. The most you can hope is that they will drop out.

I used to work in insurance and a job in this soul sucking industry is 100% not worth all that effort 😂

I'm not so sure. We were taught the wrong Geography syllabus and I still managed to get an A. In the 80s. I think it was more weighted on essays, which weren't marked so tightly.

Thanks for the reminder about the Bobiverse! I am going to re-listen when I've finished my current Audible book

What do you mean? Like not wiping their bums?? 😳

Agreed and that's where work experience, Saturday and summer jobs really help.

I've had 2 colleagues who were persistently late because they moved somewhere inconvenient or wanted to buy off peak tickets because the new journey was so expensive. The workplace and their hours had not changed. Both are in their 40s so not necessarily a young person thing.
One is late if they can't get a lift to the station even though they have their own car

The issue of this thread is not an expecting juniors to come fully able to do the job in question from day 1. Rather the issue is the basic work ethic and social practices in a shared workplace such as turning up on time, not letting people down, being considerate of others in the workforce, etc etc

Precisely, @C8H10N4O2, though I'm glad many have pointed out that it's some rather than damning an entire cohort

Equally, as a PP rightly reminded us, there are some employers who haven't the least interest in training, but then it depends what training we're talking about. Fair enough with the details of the job, but not with turning up and being prepared to do some actual work - and how can you train someone who's not there or isn't listening anyway?

So we get employers blaming the Unis, who blame secondary schools, who in turn blame primaries and so it goes on
Call me naive, but what about the parents' role in all this?

My take on it is that the education system in England teaches children from their earliest years, that their teachers will be held more to account for what they do in a test or exam than they will.
Schools compound it: "our results" "my results"
We dread parents' evenings as teachers, knowing that we will be berated if a student isn't performing at the level that their parent feels they should be at.
Is it any wonder that that many of them don't own their own progress or outcomes?

Me too! My eldest teen has a Saturday job which is already developing resilience, people skills and just having to suck it up and do things you don’t want to. I made her go round local shops/cafes and take in her cv even though she just wanted to email. I asked her to make phone calls to arrange/follow up on interviews even though she didn’t know what to say - I coached her and now she’s much more confident in knowing what to say and less reluctant to make calls.
When my kids want to just not bother with things when they’re not in the mood, we point out that they’ve made a commitment and adult life in the real world doesn’t work like that - you can’t just pull out of things or not turn up when you don’t feel like it. Hopefully there are enough sensible parents in this world that we’re not completely screwed in terms of future workforce.

In that case it's the ones you hire. If any of ours pulled any of those stunts they'd never hear the end of it.

What do you pay them?