Trainees no longer ready for workplace

[Kukcoo]

I used to love having trainees allocated to us. They were so enthusiastic, hardworking and a breath of fresh air. It was great to see them develop.

The last few have acted like they're doing us a favour if they turn up by lunchtime because they could have called in sick for nothing. Seriously can't be bothered doing the basics and expect everything to be done for them. Little respect for anyone else and the huge support they're being given. Won't meet a deadline, because this would affect their mental health and basically impinges on their human rights.

They all still expect to qualify and will be passed by the provider unless they do something truly dangerous, but they won't have the real experience or skills to join the workplace and get on with a job.

I'm barely even a different generation, but wouldn't have dreamed of acting the way they do when I was learning and felt I had to prove myself. AIBU to expect standards to be the same?

This is all really interesting. I work with young people, not a teacher, and we do work on developing resilience etc.
I do want to use DS1 (nearly 17) as an example though.
He has diagnosed and medicated ADHD, anxiety and depression. He's also severely dyslexic.
He left school in the summer after passing 1/4 highers (Scotland).
He's now at college and also working 3 days a week.
He has to leave the house at 6 to make a hours bus journey and start work at 7.
He works in a field where it's hard to keep staff, but because he's hardworking and reliable, and wants to work in this field, he's being treated very well. This means that when he does have medical appointments etc, his work are flexible.
So the future is bright for those young people who do work hard.
He's also very negative about the fellow students on his college course!

Hear hear.

Agree with this — I lightly poke fun at my boomer parents on occasion (eg when they ask why I can’t simply buy a bigger house, get a different job, etc), but the whole eVeRyThInG’s tHe bOoMeRs’ fAuLT narrative — from working practices to climate change — is a ridiculous oversimplification.

Absolutely agree with you, OP. It's shocking, very little work ethic

It's book 4 in the Bobiverse universe - Heaven's River, best on Audible. But also, only worth a read if you love a mix of comedic and hard SF. Book 1 is about someone whose mind gets uploaded to a replicating spaceship and makes clones of himself. Book 4 is a long way to go for the idea!

(the dilemma in the book is whether to interfere or not with a species that is sliding backwards because no one has to think anymore to have a nice life)

A lot our newbies are very clever and talented but they do need some looking after because they've been babysat by their parents. That said, that's what you do with newbies, probationers and trainees.

And by god there are some spectacularly shite managers and team leads and wannabes out there.

I've seen the same in professional services over the past few years and my contacts elsewhere say the same. So I don't think you are exaggerating at all.

It's not to say that alll trainees/grads are like this, but a good number of them are that it is very noticeable.

And by god there are some spectacularly shite managers and team leads and wannabes out there.

That's certainly true!

Babysitting I expect to provide for our highly paid grad trainees:

• help navigating the internal systems when new
• a buddy to provide ongoing help with scheduling, culture, random stuff
• training (expensive in our case)
• a named mentor a couple of levels up to provide them with regular guidance and be a support
• a small community of peers from different practices in the business to help build their network and learn
• peers to help review their work
• standards/processes etc to follow to help get it right first time (or more realistically - second time)
• encouragement to give their own ideas and thoughts, participate in activities etc

Babysitting I don't expect to provide:

• chasing to turn up on time
• chasing because they have simply not turned up and have failed to inform anyone
• work simply not done or not completed
• going on leave without a handover
• letting down clients in basic ways (eg not attending meetings or not attending on time, failing to follow up etc)
• trying to instill a basic work ethic (futile usually - if they don't have it by this age the damage is often done)
• general chasing on everything due to lack of aforesaid work ethic and proactivity

I think a large part of it is a culture shift that's still in progress.
Once upon a time, not that long ago, if you were going to have a responsible job, you were a white man probably of a particular background. Expectations and norms were very clear - you wore a suit, you shook hands, you turned up on time - these were more than likely instilled in you by your private school. You very quickly picked up the culture and the boundaries and you stuck to them, to get ahead.
Now the working world is far more open, but the norms aren't as clear. I research medical training and older doctors keep complaining about a 'lack of professionalism' in younger trainees, but when you delve deeper it's clear that the older doctors had very rigid expectations explicitly taught to them and enforced at all costs, whereas newer doctors don't have that. The trainees are trying to learn a very difficult job while also navigating and very unclear and confusing culture that is often contradictory - for example they are told their workplaces are inclusive and welcoming and yet they see certain people being treated differently (usually by older doctors who had racism and sexism built into their training). They are assured that their work life balance is important while also being told they can't take time off for a sibling's wedding.
If there's a very dominant culture (white men) then it's pretty easy to pass that culture on, and to exclude people who don't fit it. Things should open up but if there isn't clarity around what's expected, or there are no real role models, then of course younger people get lost. Mixed messages (women are 'valued', but no women get promoted) also don't help.

It is not authoritarian to expect an employee to turn up for work at the contracted time, and stay until the contracted time. And not take multiple sick days for petty reasons.
Where there is a flexible working scheme in place, it is not unreasonable or authoritarian to expect employees to make up their time.
Senior staff can have 'unofficial' flexitime where they just work the hours needed to get the work done. This is not appropriate for junior staff, let alone trainees.
Hierarchy is a real thing. Get over it.

You have to be in the workplace to collaborate and cooperate. WFH (or being off sick) does not lend itself to collaboration, despite the existence of MS Teams.

I agree that harsh discipline has no place in the modern workplace. But your manager pointing out where you have gone wrong, explaining you are falling short of required standards, and asking you to improve, is not 'harsh discipline'.

Because work is, well, work. It is not fun, or leisure, or a student group project.
Work is often boring and repetitive and no fun. That is why it is called work.

I graduated from school in 1999 and uni in 2006. All I was ever told by careers advisors was get a good degree and it's a stepping stone to middle management.

That definitely was NOT the case!

I'm a teacher in a secondary school and we are having exactly the same experience. Universities are accepting anyone as they just want the money and don't care if they are suitable or not.

Okay, all of that may be true.
But it doesn't explain the issues found in female-dominant, low-paid work.

Such as a supermarket employee who is lazy, often late, often sick, eye-rolls at her supervisor, and has no work ethic.
Or a young teacher or nurse whose Mum phones up when they are "too ill to work today".

As many others have said, I think there is something fundamentally wrong with a lot of parenting in recent years.
Plus I think it makes a huge difference that youngsters don't routinely get part-time jobs from the age of 14.

GenZ! It's such a shame.

I agree about not having part time jobs at a young age - they are vital for building skills IMO.

I also think expectations play a big part. In my mum's generation it was perfectly fine to blag your way through school and then to go to work in the local factory. The money wasn't great but it was enough to get by on and there was no pressure to have a high-flying job. You did your work and you went home.
Everyone's expectations seem to be higher these days, including employers. There are so many bullshit promises out there about efficiency and doing more with less that I think a lot of employers now don't accept a person who comes in, does what they need to do and goes home. High expectations push people into jobs they are not suited for. I've seen it happen quite a few times - people trying to succeed in a career they simply can't manage, because no one would accept their level of ability is lower than what's required. Combined with higher employer expectations it's a recipe for disaster.

You wish your daughter was spoon fed stock paragraphs and denied the opportunity to think for herself?!

Oh my god, I want to smack them in the face even just reading this.

Sounds interesting! The whole thing reminds me of the time machine and the Eloi

It’s not authoritarian to expect someone to turn up on time, not wander off during work hours and do the work they are paid to do. I’m seeing a lot of people frustrated by employees being unable to do the minimum which would have been required to actually not be fired 15years ago. The examples are just extremely poor

What you describe is how I sometimes get my 5yr old to do stuff, because she’s five and still learning the rules. The point is to take the training wheels off at some point and hand her more and more responsibility for herself and the expectation that she will take responsibility for and own her own actions.

When you are learning you start by taking instruction, you get to collaborate once you understand how to do the task. No-one is so special that their words are treated with weight until they have demonstrated some ability. I love my DD, I want her to be treated kindly and with respect by people. BUT I expect her to learn from people who are willing to teach her and do so with humility and grace.

Genuine question - why would this be better for your DD than finding a more vocational path that she could thrive in? If she got really good GCSEs this way, she’d want and expect really good A Levels. Then perhaps degree. Eventually she’s going to be really out of her depth, which seems like setting her up for failure.

I'm 16 years older than you (left school in 1983), it seems that your careers advisors were probably recalling their own youth. Back in my day, around 15% of people went to either a university or polytechnic. By 2006 I think it was likely double that number.

The trouble is, the number of graduate level jobs didn't double over the same timescale.

I agree about not having part time jobs at a young age - they are vital

So do I, but that concepts another that's greeted with horror by some whose narrative is "They need to focus on their studies and are too tired anyway after a full week at school"

Considering these are often the same kids who expect to be spooned everything you have to wonder what they're doing to make them so tired

This is unnecessary.

@Another2Cats

The trouble is, the number of graduate level jobs didn't double over the same timescale.

Whilst the "level" of jobs didn't increase, the entry qualifications certainly did, with more and more jobs "requiring" a degree even though there was no actual need for that level of qualification, but used just as a "weeding out" tool to reduce the number of applications the organisation had to sift through, or just because the organisation wanted the "glory" of claiming they had a better educated work-force, even if there was no actual need for it.