To think the tactics of CBR UK are disgusting? Trigger warning - pro life.

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

I've been seething since Saturday when I encountered the organisation CBR UK on one of the busiest parts of our town centre.

CBR UK are a fundamental pro-life organisation claiming to have the interests of women traumatised by abortion at heart. Actually their roots are in the US and are underpinned by fundamentalist Christian beliefs.

Their way of educating and supporting women is to display 6 x 8 feet technicolor pictures of the aftermath of abortion in full view of women and children to get their point across.

A look at their Facebook page will prove to you I am not making this up. They place a warning sign ahead if the images, and also warn that they live film their activities, but it's obviously lip service.

They hand out leaflets and try to engage people

I challenged one of the very smug beatific older woman and suggested they must really hate women, but no, it's because they love and want to protect us apparently. And "God" - which slipped out as I took my leave and she called out God bless you. To which I responded how dare you bring God into this - and her parry was - why do you hate him that much?

Anyway, I'm posting this to make you aware that you might come up against this while doing your Christmas shopping.

Whatever your views on abortion, (Mine are pro choice and pro it's noone else's Goddamn business except a woman and her doctor) can we agree that this kind of "awareness raising" is almost psychological terrorism and should not be on our high streets in such graphic forms?

Women who have been rated, suffered traumatic medical miscarriages and are possibly accompanied by curious children don't need this shit rubbed in their faces while doing their Christmas shopping - or at any time.

AIBU?

I've just looked again at the regulatory powers - Local Authorities have the power to issue dispersal orders and declare a particular area as a no go zone - if they have enough reports regarding the impact of Anti Social Behaviour.

I'd encourage everyone to report this stuff whenever they encounter it.

Every Local Authority should have an anti social behaviour team who work in collaboration with the Police. Police and PCSOs have the power to disperse people who continue to gather.

I used to work in an ASB team. You need things reported, you need to make a noise. More people need to shout out - this has caused myself and my family significant distress. Was your child crying at witnessing this? Yes? Well this needs to be reported. Email is always always best to report this.

Well luckily women in the UK have consistently voted to reject your opinion.

Those of us who grew up in Gilead (1980’s Ireland) can safely advise you to pray that the law is not changed. You have no idea what you’re asking for, and are depending on those with more sense to save you and your daughters, and granddaughters from your foolishness.

PP can have her personal opinion that 4 weeks should be the cut off. Then if PP ever falls pregnant and doesn’t want to be, then she can CHOOSE to terminate before 4 weeks.
Same as for you at 8 weeks.

The legal limit, as it stands, gives everyone the CHOICE.
Dont agree with abortion? Then don’t have one. It’s quite simple.

I’ll apologise now because this is bound to upset or offend someone.

When women were going for backstreet abortions, it was difficult to get contraception. Nowadays, availability and choice is so much greater for consenting sex that it should not be needed to be used as contraception.
It must be awful to think and see that as your only choice. I can’t imagine anyone going for an abortion without being upset to some degree.

And that’s leaving out victims of rape and medical conditions of a baby or of the mother.
I was a fertilised egg once, then a clump of cells. I’m grateful to be here.
Going for a medical procedure you are always told what will happen. Are women told the ins and outs of the procedure?
I can understand that when confronted with those photos/pictures they are awful. I watched an interview of ex-abortionists, women who’d had an abortion and a survivor of an abortion. It was so sad all around.
If you see abortion as health care then why does being confronted with the diagrams shock you or make you angry or want to protest? Myself- the pictures are horrifying but they are what they are.

No apology for this one @Tittat50 not sure how you’ve made the leap from someone being pro-life to also ignoring / supporting child abuse?

There are a lot of leaps and all manner of gymnastics going on in this thread

@EverEdith the images are designed to intimidate. You know this. It would never stop me proceeding should I need it. Yet, the added trauma should I require an abortion for say something like a condition incompatible with life - then this is utterly cruel and unacceptable to have to face. Most of us accept life requires difficult decisions at times.

Aside this, young, vulnerable women need to be protected from coercive tactics. How do we know these images are accurate? How do we know what these people, probably uninformed and low education, are actually ' educating'. I would be immensely concerned that it is misinformation, inaccurate in it's content and what they are espousing. This is very dangerous in terms of potentially inaccurate propaganda.

I am quite convinced in my belief that most pro life ( with exception) are religious zealots. Religion will trump a great deal including the sexual abuse of children. We only need look at history on that one. It's no leap at all; I wish it was.

If women considering abortions are to be shown harrowing images before they decide then should they also be shown images of what can happen to children who are unwanted and born into circumstances where their mother can't or won't look after them?
How about graphic images of birth injuries too?

Precisely my thoughts. I’d include graphic images of the birth process too. Y’know, for a fully informed decision making process.

When women were going for backstreet abortions, it was difficult to get contraception. Nowadays, availability and choice is so much greater for consenting sex that it should not be needed to be used as contraception.

I think the number of people using abortion as contraception must be minuscule, I mean really, do you understand what abortion entails? It’s hardly a fun day out for someone who just can’t be bothered to take the pill. Contraception can, and does fail.

And that’s leaving out victims of rape and medical conditions of a baby or of the mother.
I was a fertilised egg once, then a clump of cells. I’m grateful to be here.

What do you mean “leaving them out”? Are you suggesting you’re ok with abortion if a woman was raped? What proof do you propose she provides? I was also a fertilised egg once and I wouldn’t know or care if my mother had aborted me.

If you see abortion as health care then why does being confronted with the diagrams shock you or make you angry or want to protest? Myself- the pictures are horrifying but they are what they are.

The same reason I’m pro assisted dying but don’t want to be confronted by photos of dead people waved in my face when I’m off to visit a terminally ill loved one.

If images of people who have suffered traumatic death aren't allowed to be plastered all over media, then neither should these images. It's not education it's terrorism.

I'm as pro life as they come and believe human life is sacred from conception to the grave, whatever age they happen to be when they face that end.

That said, I don't like this campaign. Some women are faced with a heart breaking choice to abort, some women have had miscarriages and stillbirths, others want to be mothers but cannot. I don't like abortion but most women who have them are not evil monsters deserving of condemnation or censure. Seeing images like this is a punch in the face of many vulnerable women and also maybe their partners/potential dads of their deceased children.

How about this organisation offering help to the women and their partners facing these horrible situations of a pregnancy that may endanger their lives or may not be viable ? Rape victims, too.

I also think contraception needs to be made cheaper and more available. The benefits of abstinence and natural family planning also promoted.

I would prefer teenage girls be shown films in schools of actual pregnancy and birth, of nappies and sleepless nights, perhaps this would reduce unwanted pregnancies when a young lady is not in a position to bring up a baby of her own. And employment and training opportunities for those girls in deprived areas, help with domestic violence and escaping partners or parents, affordable housing, so they don't see the need to escape by getting pregnant .

But it won't happen on a government level. Because that would mean the government actually helping the vulnerable and needy.

RememberedBills · Today 08:51
I don’t accept that it’s medical care

Some people still believe the world is flat. They’re wrong, too. Putting it politely.

Excellent post @AsMuchUseAsAChocolateTeapot
Demonstrates how its possible to have beliefs and convictions like yours and still have compassion. I don't necessarily agree with you but I respect your standpoint
There are many people, including a few on here, who could learn from you.

Like deciding abortion is a net negative for women based on personal conviction? Like then leaping over to abortion not actually being about women once that ridiculous assertion was torn asunder?

@EverEdith these pictures are being used to intimidate and coerce people.
It should always be a woman's right to choose. If someone doesn't agree with abortion, then that is absolutely fine, they have a choice and they don't have to have one. What they don't get to do is comment on other women's bodies and intimidate them into making a decision that isn't right for them.
Pro-lifers should put their energy into supporting the improvement of things like:
Maternity leave
Childcare costs
Respite care
Mental health services
Child Maintenance
Disability services
The list could go on.
Rather than pushing horrible pictures and leaflets into people's faces whilst they are out doing their shopping.
I do understand that the idea of an abortion is not a nice one, but no one makes that decision easily. Removing a women's right to abortions will never stop abortions, it just brings back the return of illegal ones.

Because the images are fake. They are not 'real'. They use almost full-term babies to make it look like your average abortion. 98% of all abortions are well before the embryo even resembles anything a human form. They use fake, doctored images the emotionally manipulate and control women.

That's why. None of their propaganda is actually true. If it was, it would be different.

Yep. Maybe these pro-birth zealots should be shown photos of children abused by their mother and stepfather like Baby P? Show the cigarette burns on him, and knocked out teeth and all. Show them to the pro-Gestational Slavers and give them a guilty conscience, as to what they are, in practice and reality, supporting.

Even if a woman gets pregnant because she sleeps around and doesn't use contraception (because all that happens without any men involved, apparently), a baby is not supposed to be a punishment for the mother. I think most people would agree that it's better to use contraception but there will always be stupid or irresponsible people (who, being stupid and irresponsible, probably wouldn't make good parents) or just damn unlucky people who did use protection and it failed. We don't subject the women to the permanent physical and mental changes and risks of pregnancy, labour and motherhood, which can include permanent injuries and even death, so that they can receive what some people think is their righteous punishment. Who the fuck wants to force a baby to be born just to make the mother unhappy? Is that kind, compassionate, responsible, Christian?

Don't even get me started on those who think you can just birth the babies and give them away, like women are fucking toy dispensing machines. Anyone who thinks that's how pregnancy, labour and childbirth work doesn't know enough about them to have an opinion on the matter.

Trouble is, the idea of "worthy suffering" underpins fundamental Christian beliefs in alot of cases. Saying things like God doesn't give us any more than we can handle neatly evades the very man made causes of suffering, and allows some to keep un suffering.. .because it's "good" for us and part if "God's mysterious ways".... blah blah blah.

I know NACALT BTW. But the ones who are should never be allowed to meddle in public policy in general.

I used to go in and make donations to Planned Parenthood when I was in the US and saw people like this. And say

"I dont believe God would approve of such hateful tactics as yours. My God is a loving god and it is my belief you are misguided and that you are doing the devils work here, fostering hatred and harm".

Very well said.

That's pretty much how I ended my exchange with simpering Sally on Saturday. I used the words "demonic intervention" to describe their actions.

Oh, and tell them you will pray that they will come to see the error of their ways. That really gets them.

I wasn’t distressed or upset at all going for my abortion. Only relieved. It hurt as I effectively went into labour but it was worth it.

The problem with your contraception theory is that banning abortions and saying “Well there’s good contraception now” is taking power away from women for whom contraception is too late. Wether it’s because she didn’t use a condom or if the condom didn’t work, or if she was raped or coerced - by denying her abortion you’re punishing with a lifelong penalty for a pretty minor mistake. Is that fair and just?