To think the tactics of CBR UK are disgusting? Trigger warning - pro life.

[MistressoftheDarkSide]

I've been seething since Saturday when I encountered the organisation CBR UK on one of the busiest parts of our town centre.

CBR UK are a fundamental pro-life organisation claiming to have the interests of women traumatised by abortion at heart. Actually their roots are in the US and are underpinned by fundamentalist Christian beliefs.

Their way of educating and supporting women is to display 6 x 8 feet technicolor pictures of the aftermath of abortion in full view of women and children to get their point across.

A look at their Facebook page will prove to you I am not making this up. They place a warning sign ahead if the images, and also warn that they live film their activities, but it's obviously lip service.

They hand out leaflets and try to engage people

I challenged one of the very smug beatific older woman and suggested they must really hate women, but no, it's because they love and want to protect us apparently. And "God" - which slipped out as I took my leave and she called out God bless you. To which I responded how dare you bring God into this - and her parry was - why do you hate him that much?

Anyway, I'm posting this to make you aware that you might come up against this while doing your Christmas shopping.

Whatever your views on abortion, (Mine are pro choice and pro it's noone else's Goddamn business except a woman and her doctor) can we agree that this kind of "awareness raising" is almost psychological terrorism and should not be on our high streets in such graphic forms?

Women who have been rated, suffered traumatic medical miscarriages and are possibly accompanied by curious children don't need this shit rubbed in their faces while doing their Christmas shopping - or at any time.

AIBU?

If it wasn't for pro-life campaigners I would have aborted my first. I didn't and it was based on the images I saw. It allowed me to resist the pressure to terminate and it was the making of me. Thank God I came across them before it was too late.

Yup. Women don’t even have a right to half decent maternity leave the US. All these anti-choicers are lobbying for forced births, while giving NO support to those women post-birth. It’s like they just want a baby to be born, nothing else?
Why?
I’ll tell you why - they fucking hate women

There's normally a massive cross over between the type of people who subscribe to this kind of belief, and those who are also very critical of single mothers, 'broken'/non-nuclear families etc etc. The lack of critical thinking is astonishing.

To me, they are not pro-life. They are pro-birth, and anti-women. If they were truly pro-life, they'd be arguing for policies that would improve the lives of mothers and the children they were forced to give birth to, instead of pillorying them every opportunity they get. It's punishment, not pro-life.

Thing is, you’re gonna say that when you have a child you love and adore aren’t you. Had you had an abortion you wouldn’t have had a crystal ball to see what you were missing out on - you’d have moved on and got over it and your life would have taken a different route. You clearly didn’t really want one in the first place if a picture led you to a life changing decision. It didn’t put me off personally with mine

What do you mean by justifiable?

Why are you seeking to control other's choices? Do you have dreams of becoming a mini dictator?! If you don't want one, dont have one, no need to stick your nose into other women's business.

Good for you. Genuinely. But you're not every woman. That's why we need choice. And pro birthers have no right to impose their beliefs on others.

@MistressoftheDarkSide - I think they may be breaking the law here, but I am no expert, so maybe others can review and comment. But this extract from https://www.gov.uk/government/news/protection-zones-around-abortion-clinics-in-place-by-october indicates that teh protec tion zones around abortion clinics also extends to public soaces - see para 3 below:

"Protection zones around abortion clinics will be in force from 31 October, as the government moves to bring in stronger safeguards for women accessing this vital health service.

Safe access buffer zones will make it illegal for anyone to do anything that intentionally or recklessly influences someone’s decision to use abortion services, obstructs them, or causes harassment or distress to someone using or working at these premises. The law will apply within a 150 metre radius of the abortion service provider.

The relevant zones also need to be on or next to a public highway or road, in an open space to which the public has access, or within the area of land attached to an abortion clinic, or in a location that is visible from any of those areas."

I always think this is a bit of a straw man argument though. Because if you had aborted your first child, you may well have gone on to have a child you wouldn't otherwise have had subsequently and then you wouldn't be able to imagine your life without that specific child instead. It's just how it works, really. You are glad that you have the child you have, generally, no matter what set of circumstances got you there.

Medical care isn't an opinion.

You can make decisions about your body

HTH

Justifiable by whom?

It wasn’t too long ago that abortions were illegal. A relative of mine died after an illegal abortion in the 60’s. Is this want these people want - to go back to those days? This will happen again if women have their choices taken away. It won’t stop abortions - it will just force women into dangerous back-street ones again.

Thank you for challenging this OP.

My kids go to a Catholic school. Once a month the kids were handed the parish letter. My daughter (was 7 or 8 at the time) was reading it on the way back to the car and asked 'what is abortion?'. I read the letter and there were several rants about abortion. I was absolutely fuming. I spoke to the head and they haven't handed them out since. How dare they give such things to young girls?

At least I took the moment to educate my daughter about abortion and to explain why I was so angry.

I really hope I don't see any of these posters when out and about, because I'm not sure what my reaction will be.

Abortion is medical care. It saves lives. It is a fundamental human right. Women aren't Gestational Slaves with no rights.

Thank God you had a choice
Which is what these people want to take away from women like you.
I wonder how happy you would be about this situation if you had been pressured to terminate instead

I've got a couple of questions for @RememberedBills

1,Do you understand that when a woman has a miscarriage and has retained products of conception (ie not all of the fetal tissue has passed) she is given an abortion, sometimes 2 even for the same miscarriage (the abortion pills 1st and if that doesn't work a dnc)
2, 30-40% of early (up to 12 weeks) abortions are due to miscarriage and/or risk of death to the mother
3, ALL late term (post 24 weeks) are due to incompatibility with life/ severe congenital defects
4, between 10%and 20% of aborted fetuses are the product of rape
Given those facts how can you claim that abortions are not medically necessary?
Do you think women should die just because they had a miscarriage?
Do you think that women should be forced to carry their rapist baby to term?
Do you believe that women should be forced to continue a pregnancy that isn't viable?
Do you believe that a woman should be murdered by medical professionals by forcing her to continue with a pregnancy that will kill her before the fetuse is viable (also killing the fetuse)?

And finally if you answer yes to any of my questions how can you sleep at night knowing that you're advocating killing women?

Needless to say most women don't even know they're pregnant at 4 weeks, as they haven't even missed their period yet. So that suggestion is ridiculous, ignorant and ill-informed. Who you're replying to is obviously a man, as not even a pro-life woman would say 4 weeks as all women know that you don't know you're pregnant then.

Exactly.

I'd never heard of this lot till now, so I took a look at their website which contains graphic abortion footage.

I suspect what we see there is illegal in the UK, or in all events very unusual. When I was doing my midwifery training some years back I remember being told that they use methods in the US that weren't legal here even then, still less now.

The (few) abortions I attended as a midwife were medical, not surgical. Surgical ones have a higher complication rate as you can imagine: I had one such in the 70s.

Medical ones in the UK are done by a very similar process to induction of labour: pessaries to ripen the cervix and then stimulation of contractions to expel the 'products of conception', as the term goes. To be blunt, you want the fetus in one piece so you can check it's all come away, as bits left behind can be potentially fatal to the woman. I think surgical abortion now accounts for a very small number of the total and, even with those, what we see in this organisation's videos I don't believe accurately reflect what happens here.

You are entitled to your opinion. But my opinion is that abortion has been a net negative for women.

Please elaborate.

No. Its not that I have a particular fondness for the child I have, which I of course do and I haven't deprived myself of having one I like better further down the line!

It's that I wouldn't have to live with the wondering about the child that could have been, but that I killed.

You are wrong
Not an opinion, a fact.
Allowing women access to safe healthcare can never be negative.

There's not much point. You wouldn't accept a single thing I had to say on the matter.