Bus driver refused to make passenger leave

[MobilityCat]

Last night on the very crowded bus I was unable to get to the wheelchair space to park, as it was full of luggage and people. The only place available was in the doorway.

A person stood next to me in the doorway and refused to move to allow people off, saying it was I that was in the way.

I asked him to move out of the doorway so other passengers could get off, but he wouldn't so I told him that he was being inconsiderate and he started shouting and swearing at me. I told him to move away and leave me alone.

He persisted so I called twice to the driver to get him off the bus, but the driver took no action to make him leave, so I was left to manage his abuse.

He then stood in front of me and threatened me, so I raised my walking stick and pointed it at him as a warning. He backed away but carried on threatening me.

I told him that I didn't want to hurt him but if he didn't leave me alone and continued threatening me I would.

He moved further away from me, but continued to swear at me, but since he was no longer a threat I just ignored him.

I was bullied as a child, but learned to stand up against bullies as they are basically cowards, but Is it asking too much to expect the driver to protect their passengers?

I don't see how the driver could actually make anyone leave, short of in a headlock! I've been in situations where if someone wouldn't make way for a wheelchair user the driver turns the engine off. Then the passengers get stuck in, there's a bit of shouting and I get out and walk.

He wasn't driving safely.

He had an unsecured wheelchair on the bus, blocking the aisle.

If the bus caught fire it could severely hamper escape and if God forbid it crashed or braked sharply, the wheelchair and the OP could've been propelled towards the passengers.

Drivers aren't recruited, trained or insured to get into physical interactions

It was on a Tfl bus on the outer part of London. I was a bit shaken by the whole thing and didn't think to get the bus number. In future I'm going to try to remember to take a picture.

It's how badly accessible the buses are that's the problem. There should be more space for wheelchair users and pushchairs. The current space really isn't fit for purpose.

I remember seeing a wheelchair user demand a mum with a tiny baby move so they could use the space. The mum ended up having to get off the bus because there just wasn't enough space. Didn't really seem right to me.

if you give them the time it happened they can work out which bus it was. the time and the stop you got on.

The bus driver should have requested that the wheelchair space was vacated and cleared of luggage, but they can't force people to do this.

I don't think you should have told the man to move and then threaten him with a stick when he didn't comply - its aggressive and maybe why nobody came to your defence.

WTF? 🤦‍♀️

The space is FOR wheelchair users.

What's not right about the mother either folding her buggy, or getting off the bus and catching the one behind?

Exactly this!

OP has already admitted to threatening people with a walking stick & no doubt verbally abusive as well. The bus driver has the right to refuse to drive if someone is threatening violence.

Yes wheelchairs have priority over push chairs in a wheelchair space but the driver has no power to enforce that. They drive the bus they are not security guards or police! All he could do was ask but he cannot forcably remove people.

If the bus is full & overcrowded then you can't force paying passengers already on the bus to get off. You have the right to request luggage be moved & buggies folded but you can't just remove people from the bus.

Of course, I must have asked for it!

All he could do was ask but he cannot forcably remove people.

That wasn't all he could do.

He could've NOT lowered the ramp and allowed the OP to get on the bus and sit in the aisle.

The reason buses have wheelchair spaces is to keep the wheelchair user and other passengers safe.

What they can do is refuse to move the bus. This usually compels the no compliant passenger to move.
that said we should expect better busses in London.
in Spain there are busses which can accommodate multiple wheelchairs and buggies.
we need to demand more.

You both should have been kicked off the bus neither of you handled it well threatening each other. If the bus was full driver shouldn’t have let you on and because he did let you on he should have asked for luggage etc to be moved so you could use the wheelchair space. Was you in a wheelchair for the bus ride?

I once ever saw a bus stopped with the doors closed and heard a loud announcement saying " This bus is under attack, please call the police"

Your partner has my sympathy but I belive that the bus driver can deal with it without endangering themselves and common sense seems extremely rare.

TBH, some London bus routes - and in particular, night bus routes - could do with a conductor. And when I say conductor, I really mean trained and licensed bouncer. People have no common decency and the driver is there to drive not get involved in situations where they feel unsafe.

It would make life easier for wheelchair chair users, lone women would be safer, and it would reduce fare evasion.

However, prices would have to go up to pay for the extra salaries.

Pushchair users can be oblivious. I was on the bus once when the wheelchair space had two buggies wedged in there and there was no more space. A couple with a double buggy got on, and couldn't figure out why the driver wouldn't move when their pram with kids in it was in the doorway and not securely parked...

A lot of prams are bigger and bigger these days too. They should all be easy to collapse with one hand and not designed as shopping trolleys that parents feel unable to collapse because even if you can take the baby out, they're rammed with stuff.

I also find wheelchair ramps are often broken, and that shouldn't be acceptable. I've seen people struggle to get off the bus because the ramp has broken after they've got on. I think if you've let a wheelchair user onto your bus and the ramp has then stopped working, your default solution should not be to keep driving and to only remain in place where other bus users have taken it into their own hands to block the doors to stop the driver from leaving, and to help carry the chair off the bus. I just think some drivers are atrocious towards chair users.

It would also be quite useful to design buses with more space on them where the route goes past any of the big stations as chances are, people will have suitcases. It would help avoid the confrontation altogether if more people's needs were being met at the same time.

I'm usually very sympathetic for drivers as even ordinaly they have a lot going on apart from unruly passengers but surely as other posters have said they could have stopped the bus, opened the door and announced that it won't continue until the person in question got off.

I see you've totally missed my point. Buses should have more space for people who need it.

It shouldn't come down to putting one vulnerable user off the bus because another person needs the same space!

Thank you. That has a wealth of information.

They should ,but when it's categorically a wheelchair space ,that mums with buggies csn use when there are no wheelchairs, then obviously wheelchairs take priority

There is no vulnerability comparison here and it's baffling that you think there is.

Parents traveled on busses for decades without wheelchair spaces. They now don't always have to, but once in a blue moon if they do (because let's face it, how many wheelchair users do you see on a bus on a regular basis?) then they'll just have to get off and get on the one behind.

It's a nice/convenient thing for parents to have on a bus, but it's imperative for wheelchair users.

That's where the real vulnerability lies.

Yes and when that alarm does go off, nobody calls the police to help the driver. They just get their phones out and film it to upload on tiktok for likes and LOL's instead. Unfortunately a driver cannot make anyone leave a bus. They rely on passengers being civilised enough to behave like grown ups. When there is trouble on board If you see a driver raise his hand to press a button on the control panel above his seat it's usually because he's requesting assistance discreetly in the hope revenue inspectors or police might be near the next stops to get on and intervene. It's a thankless job and my partner often comes home saying he hates his job and wants to leave after yet another day of persistent abuse, threats and fare evasion from passengers.

It would also be quite useful to design buses with more space on them where the route goes past any of the big stations as chances are, people will have suitcases.

How do you make more space for luggage without reducing space for passengers?

It's not unknown round here (not London) for drivers to refuse to drive parts of some routes, because one or more drivers have been assaulted, or things have been thrown at buses.

It would also be quite useful to design buses with more space on them where the route goes past any of the big stations as chances are, people will have suitcases.

And if the space isn't filled with cases, the passengers will stand in it.

Then someone will try to get on with cases and the passengers won't move....

I also made the point that bouncers were needed! (I.e. old school conductors with updated security training.)

There are always a lot of idiots on buses and as horrible and unsettling as that feels for us passengers... it must be even worse for the driver, stuck in a tiny area with only a glass shield for protection. They can't exactly run away.

No one should have to feel unsafe at work.

Yes, I agree 100%.

Although sadly the cost of bouncers would out-price many people from travelling.