To support UK Farmers

[TheHateIsNotGood]

And due to KS's inability to face them in Wales today they are now thinking of going on strike. Because the govt are being too stubborn to reconsider how they apply IHT on working family farms. By all means close the loophole that allows the 'landed gentry' to take advantage of the agricultural exception but not with so blunt an instrument.

I was hoping to add a post to an existing thread but there isn't one despite it being headline news today.

So what do you suggest? Rich people should be paying their share, not given special treatment and not paying a tax the rest of us do (and which they managed perfectly well to pay until Thatcher came along)

Well the bbc are wrong! And wouldn't be the first time

It’s literally what you said.
Believe whatever yo7 like. Time will tell
Um, ok. Your style of reasoned debate is, er, interesting.

It is an easy data point, direct from Treasury

@poetryandwine the government have their figures way off!

And they are only taking about APR. They HAVE NOT INCLUDED BPR CALCULATIONS!!!

Is that it. There were more farmers around Clarkson than that!

117 out of how many farms that were inherited in that period?

If you listen to the people speaking today it's clear they are small family farmers

There must be many of these

So why aren't they being picked up by Labour?

You may be right but not sure what those acronyms refer to

OH that oracle 😁😁

That is the number of farms inherited in that period that would have been eligible for that tax, a figure which makes little sense unless we know how many farms were inherited in total in that period.

It's a voluntary exchange when you go to the cinema. And the cinema isn't using my money to pay for someone else's entry.

@cardibach you are completely delusional if you think farmers are wealthy. They are not.

British farming is on its knees.

The assets are only worth anything if they are sold. There is no cash on the bank. The assets are not liquid.

If they are sold they will not be sold to other farmers - no farmers have the money!!

They will be sold to big business and greenwashed. They will import thousands of unsuitable trees to offset their carbon emissions - and look what importing trees has done to us in the recent past - remember ash dieback anyone?
Or they will stick solar panels down. Both of which takes good productive food producing farms out of food production. It does bugger all for the environment and decimates our food security and family businesses.

Yes. I think they probably should.
I also hope that this generates a significant enough revenue to in some way make an impact which will benefit the nation, rather than just feel punitive to the moderately wealthy. This, along with the other changes that disproportionately affect the middle earners, just feels like a way to ensure there is only one period of office for Labour; and then we’ll be back in the hands of the Tories.

Tell you what @cardibach , why not divide all the land in the country up evenly and give a bit to each family. That way they can be responsible for growing their own food and everyone has an equal share. There will be no greedy landowners or rich farmers and everyone will have the same as the next person. Got to be a good thing, right?

PS: What do you know about growing turnips? And do you own any wellies? High heels might work on a Friday night on the dancefloor of The Ritzy, but they’re not very practical for feeding pigs on a wet Thursday.

Whatever revenue they get I don't think will benefit the nation in the way that you hope.

@EasternStandard
APR - is agricultural property relief - which is what everyone is taking about on here. It is unique to agriculture.

• this covers

BPR - is Business Property relief - in agricultural terms this is your machinery and stock - including livestock and crop in the ground.

Both were set at 100% relief up until the budget.

So when the government are taking about farms being under 3 million - they are only taking about the APR. The farm buildings and acreage.
They are deliberately ignoring the BPR. Adding in the BPR is what will bring the figures up dramatically to the 75% affected the the NFU are stating.

It was supposed to say

This covers the land, buildings and farmhouse only.

462 - So roughly one quarter.
Not an inconsiderable number.

Agreed. As I say, I think all it will achieve is handing us back to the Tories on a plate.

Quoting myself to add:
That figure is indeed based on APR and not BPR as PP said.

(Reminiscent of
‘We won’t raise NI’.
But you’ve raised NI?
‘No, we meant we wouldn’t raise NI for working people’…)

Those people here who support the children of farmers being able to inherit their parent's valuable businesses without paying inheritance tax - do you think this should also apply to people who inherit other family businesses and not just farming? Because someone who inherits a profitable restaurant (say) or factory also faces having to sell off property or other assets to pay their inheritance tax.

Not quite - there were 117 farm estates valued above £2.5m in 2021-22. The first threshold is £1 million.

Is 2021-22 an average year or an outlier?

I refer you to my response of 18:25pm this evening.

No, I think inheritance tax is a sound principle in general. Just not when it threatens our already precarious food security. The national interest is not served by precipitating the sale of the means of food production, given that farms are not likely to be sold to other farmers. Where I live, all the farms that have been sold in the last 18 years now have horses or solar panels in the fields.

@izimbra you can't really compare the two. Farming business are of a completely different mould to the vast majority of businesses.

Firstly the vast majority of businesses will be making a vastly higher profit margin relative to the asset value of the business and the costs of the business.

Secondly family farms are by their very nature multigenerational. It's not uncommon for 3 or even 4 generations to be living and working on the farm. Most family businesses the older generation will retire and pass on the business a significant amount of time before their deaths. So thereby they wouldn't be paying tax on it. Farmers don't do that.
And if they did then the older generation would have to move off farm. As they couldn't be benefitting from the farm once gifted on. Family farms are so mixed up with the combination of family and business and home that you can't fit it into a regular business mould.