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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To try and find some good teens books that don't push the LGBTQ agenda?

430 replies

Lifeofthepartay · 16/11/2024 13:27

Trying to get some books for my daughter who is in S1, books are either too young or they all have a blurb that alludes to the main character's sexual preferences. Would love it if anyone could recommend something your pre-teens, or young teens are reading that don't include those topics? They already get enough information about it in school and the internet.

OP posts:
JWKD · 17/11/2024 20:36

Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 20:00

I am from a minority race in the UK and I can tell you I've never read a character of my nationality in any books in English, that doesn't enrage me, neither does it make me think that people are racist to me because they have not included my nationality in books, I also have no interest in forcing kids to read about my culture if they are not interested, they will probably travel to my home country when they are older and learn about it then and I am absolutely fine with that ❤️

How would you feel about people saying they didn't want their children reading books that featured people of your race or nationality?

Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 20:40

GiddyRobin · 16/11/2024 23:46

Yep. Imagine having eyes over your shoulder while you look at a library shelf. No wonder the poor girl cringes and says she doesn't like romance. She's probably mortified.

Wow for someone that claims to be so open minded you surely make a lot of assumptions 🤣

OP posts:
Purrdrop · 17/11/2024 20:42

Let's not be hard of thinking here, @Lifeofthepartay has not said anywhere that she is banning her daughter from reading books about LGB T or with LGBT. She is asking for suggestions for books on other topics? Maybe she wants her daughter to expand her reading range? Maybe I'm wrong and maybe this is a goady bait thread (we'll never know) but let's not put words into the OP's mouth here. We are assuming a lot that she hasn't said.

GiddyRobin · 17/11/2024 20:42

Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 20:40

Wow for someone that claims to be so open minded you surely make a lot of assumptions 🤣

I mean, you can keep quoting me until you're blue in the face but I'm not responding to your "arguments". You're homophobic, you know you are, so that's that. I'm not joining your "bashing the gays" fun, because that's all you're after.

mathanxiety · 17/11/2024 20:44

JWKD · 17/11/2024 20:36

How would you feel about people saying they didn't want their children reading books that featured people of your race or nationality?

That is not what the OP is saying about LGBTQ people though.

She's looking for books that are about something other than sexuality or gender identity, i.e., books with a plot or a central theme that doesn't hinge on discovering a sexual identity.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 20:44

TempestTost · 17/11/2024 01:11

Large numbers of 11 year olds aren't interested in sex or boys yet, not because they are asexual, but because they are 11.

It's good for them to have books pitched to their stage of life.

It's a bit of a funny age, because YA stuff is sooo focused on sex and relationships (even an asexual focus is about something different than presexual) whereas books like Diary of a Wimpy Kid are going to be too young.

There's a definite stage that comes bewtween those two for many readers.

Exactly, she hasn't even hit puberty yet and people here already saying she might be asexual and I am depriving her from reading stuff she needs to read to validate her sexuality 🤣

OP posts:
Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 20:47

GiddyRobin · 17/11/2024 02:15

Have you read the books? I remember reading them when I was that age, and have read them since. I struggle to find anything like that whatsoever in them. I do think a lot of people disliked Pullman for his anti-church stance though.

The beauty of books is that children should be able to choose what they read. If that's Mallory Towers at tween age, fine. If it's HDM, that's also fine. But to prescribe it for them is wrong. I would never have necessarily told my parents what I liked about the books I read; I'd talk about the stories. I didn't want to tell them I liked romance at that age. It would have been embarrassing.

Being able to go to a library and being given free reign is a wonderful thing. It does incredible things for critical thinking, social understanding, and yes - even learning what they're comfortable with. They can always close the book or skip a chapter if a holding hands or kiss is too much. But these are developing brains.

I tutored Literature for years while I worked up in publishing. The first thing I would always do was ask for a family trip to the library. To let the child choose. That's what sparks joy, that's what gets them interested, not a rota of acceptable books ticked off a list by a homophobic mother with an agenda.

Surely that's within an age appropriate bracket?

OP posts:
Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 20:49

FancyBiscuitsLevel · 17/11/2024 07:22

Most of this conversation seems to be based on the premise the OP is correct, the majority of books aimed at 11 year olds are relationship themed and LGBT+ themed. That’s just not true.

id actually like to know what were the books she’d looked at that led her to dismiss all new literature for kids as pushing the gay agenda. Because there are really very few books in the “middle grade” (year 5-8, so aged 9-13) that are romantic relationship focussed, or even have people dating in them. Give me these titles that are causing upset, are they actually popular books aimed at children?

you don’t need to chose between LGBT+ books or classics / 90s kids books. The vast majority of books published over the last 5 years aimed at y5-8 children would meet the OPs criteria, but many will be fantasy, which apparently her dd doesn’t like. just look at the Waterstones nominations list (not the “older children” section as that’s aimed at year 9+), or the Carnegie medal for writing nominations list, or the week junior’s book prize.

there are a lot of very interesting and complex books being published aimed at 11 year olds that aren’t just about dating and romance. Any good book shop will have a range.

This is why I was asking for suggestions..I googled preteen books and most of them have sexual themes,partly about LGBTQ struggles.... unfortunately it turned into a political conversation

OP posts:
Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 20:51

Teanbiscuits33 · 17/11/2024 08:32

I do understand what you’re saying, but around her age is the sort of age that she will be becoming aware of her sexuality, if not a bit younger. Girls start puberty from 8 onwards! So, to me, there’s nothing wrong with her knowing that whatever sexuality she is, it’s fine, she’s not alone etc. She doesn’t have to shy away whatever she is.

I understand your thoughts that you don’t want it centred around sexuality, but to actively shield someone, what is YOUR agenda there? At 11/12, she’s not too young and it’s naive to think otherwise. I knew my sexuality at 10, and reading certain books would have made absolutely no difference to that 🤣

So reading certain books made no difference to your sexuality but you think not reading certain books will make a difference to my daughter's? 🤦‍♀️

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 17/11/2024 20:52

Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 20:44

Exactly, she hasn't even hit puberty yet and people here already saying she might be asexual and I am depriving her from reading stuff she needs to read to validate her sexuality 🤣

Don't despair.

There's plenty of thought provoking and well written literature out there.

Not so much in 'fast fashion' style bookshops, but there are online retailers if you don't mind a preloved book.

Teanbiscuits33 · 17/11/2024 20:56

Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 20:47

Surely that's within an age appropriate bracket?

But at 11, sexuality and relationship based books ARE age appropriate. Whether or not your DD wants to read them or she’s not ready is another matter but it’s her choice to read them (or not) as she sees fit.

Why do you think an 11 year old isn’t old enough to read relationship books and why are you trying to police it? I could understand you wanting to police highly sexualised themes, but otherwise you’re unreasonable. That’s what people are saying, not that she SHOULD be reading certain things, just that you shouldn’t be trying to suppress it. You sound like one of those precious parents who doesn’t allow her children to grow up at their own pace.

Teanbiscuits33 · 17/11/2024 20:59

Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 20:51

So reading certain books made no difference to your sexuality but you think not reading certain books will make a difference to my daughter's? 🤦‍♀️

I think the point here has gone right over your head. It will make a difference to your daughter for the simple reasons that IF she is gay then she will feel better about it and 2. It will help her become more tolerant of other people, so yes, I do think books and other influences can be beneficial, though not for changing sexuality.

Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 21:04

Teanbiscuits33 · 17/11/2024 20:59

I think the point here has gone right over your head. It will make a difference to your daughter for the simple reasons that IF she is gay then she will feel better about it and 2. It will help her become more tolerant of other people, so yes, I do think books and other influences can be beneficial, though not for changing sexuality.

And what is the rush about her reading about this at 11? I never said I never want her to read about these themes, just that I don't find the topics appropriate/of relevance at the moment.

OP posts:
Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 21:06

Teanbiscuits33 · 17/11/2024 20:56

But at 11, sexuality and relationship based books ARE age appropriate. Whether or not your DD wants to read them or she’s not ready is another matter but it’s her choice to read them (or not) as she sees fit.

Why do you think an 11 year old isn’t old enough to read relationship books and why are you trying to police it? I could understand you wanting to police highly sexualised themes, but otherwise you’re unreasonable. That’s what people are saying, not that she SHOULD be reading certain things, just that you shouldn’t be trying to suppress it. You sound like one of those precious parents who doesn’t allow her children to grow up at their own pace.

Edited

I suppose that is open to interpretation. Not all kids get to puberty at the same age and therefore the relevance of these themes don't have an exact age for everyone.

OP posts:
Teanbiscuits33 · 17/11/2024 21:09

Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 21:04

And what is the rush about her reading about this at 11? I never said I never want her to read about these themes, just that I don't find the topics appropriate/of relevance at the moment.

There isn’t a rush but the point is that you shouldn’t be trying to police what she reads whether they are books about sexuality and relationships or not. 11 isn’t young to start becoming aware of who you are and is completely normal to be curious and interested at that age. As long as they aren’t graphic novels, there’s no need to be so uptight. Let her grow up instead of mollycoddling and sheltering her. There’s nothing worse. It does the kids no favours at all.

Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 21:10

GiddyRobin · 17/11/2024 20:04

And it's a race to the bottom, is it? Do you experience racism? I hope not, but if you ever have I am honestly shocked you find it so easy to demonise people who are different.

Your thread fucking stinks. You know what you're doing, and I'm annoyed I've even got involved. It's a pity and it's a damn shame.

I hope, for your daughter's sake, that she's every inch the heterosexual girl you want her to be.

I'm done with this thread, the comments are disgusting.

And I hope you get the support you need in real life rather than getting some angry, swearing at randoms in the internet 🤔

OP posts:
Teanbiscuits33 · 17/11/2024 21:12

Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 21:06

I suppose that is open to interpretation. Not all kids get to puberty at the same age and therefore the relevance of these themes don't have an exact age for everyone.

When SHE decides she is ready to read them, she will pick them up. She doesn’t need you to tell her when the appropriate time is. The types of books you are referring to are written for your DDs age range, there won’t be anything traumatic in them 🤣

GenerativeAIBot · 17/11/2024 21:17

If the most interesting thing about a person is who they fancy, they are a very dull person. Equally a dull character in a book.

mathanxiety · 17/11/2024 21:17

GiddyRobin · 17/11/2024 01:15

I think His Dark Materials touches on that nicely. It does have romance, and if I remember there's a steamy scene towards the end of the trilogy? But it's a fantasy, and it's so cleverly done in terms of talking about love and relationships.

When I was in school, everyone was a bit boy/girl mad at that age. I and about 8 other girls had started periods, etc. This is why those books are important. But also why LGBT books are, too! You get the typical boy/girl tales in lots of them but it's important to have representation at such a pivotal time.

But this is a child who isn't interested in boys or girls, and just wants an engaging or well-written yarn.

According to you, she needs to read books whose raison d'etre is representation, because representation is the most important element of literature.

"Typical boy/girl tales" aimed at eleven year olds are actually not that typical.

Having periods at 11 doesn't automatically mean a girl is interested in her sexuality, and being boy/girl mad at 11 is perhaps an impression given by a loud and forward element in any given class, but these kids are probably not representative of the entire group. (The same goes for class or year group musical taste, incidentally).

Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 21:17

Octopies · 17/11/2024 10:18

For those saying OP should let her choose her own books, she has said in a PP that:

'Yes, my daughter seems very similar to your boy. Also the YA section in our local library is non existent. The librarian said kids that age weren't using the books so they just donated all the stuff to secondary schools.'

So what's the issue with her asking for recommendations for books based on the sorts of books she knows her daughter has read and enjoyed before? Nowhere has the OP said she has banned her DD from reading LBGTQ+ literature or that it's something she refuses to buy if her daughter asks for it.

I've recently had to suggest some guidelines at work for the young teens as there are a couple who are very open about being LBGTQ+ which is awesome. However, they can be quite probing about asking their peers about their sexual preferences and telling them they must be asexual if they don't fancy anyone at 14 years old. I know there's no malice intended and it's just curiosity and teens trying to make sense of life. Last week one lad ran off in tears as he clearly doesn't want to discuss his own feelings towards sexuality and relationships, but kept being pressed by the same person. I've suggested talking about their own experiences is fine, but if someone doesn't want to join in with the conversation, that's equally valid and their silence on the subject should be respected.

It it's absolutely ridiculous here there are people in the comments making assumptions about my daughter might be asexual and that's why she cringes at romance in movies 🤣 , if this is what adults just assume from one line of information, imagine kids! Unfortunately in my opinion the LGBTQ feels forced and no doubt they will be kids just saying they are a different gender or sexual preference because of all the information and pressure they are under. I've heard about kids running around pretending to be animals and labelling themselves furrys, do we really think this is also common? Or could it be more that they read it somewhere and jumped in the bandwagon? It's undeniable that kids are impressionable at that age and this is the whole reason on rating shows, films and books.

OP posts:
GenerativeAIBot · 17/11/2024 21:18

Teanbiscuits33 · 17/11/2024 21:12

When SHE decides she is ready to read them, she will pick them up. She doesn’t need you to tell her when the appropriate time is. The types of books you are referring to are written for your DDs age range, there won’t be anything traumatic in them 🤣

I’d say mastectomies of healthy breasts are pretty traumatic?

Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 21:22

JWKD · 17/11/2024 20:36

How would you feel about people saying they didn't want their children reading books that featured people of your race or nationality?

There are plenty people against people of my nationality, I know I can't change peoples opinions or thoughts, everyone is free and unless someone is physically attacking me or being aggressive to me in-person it's. Ot something I would lose sleep over.

OP posts:
TofuTart · 17/11/2024 21:24

GenerativeAIBot · 17/11/2024 21:18

I’d say mastectomies of healthy breasts are pretty traumatic?

Edited

The OP hasn't said anything about that, she's worried about her DD reading about gay or lesbian characters.

Trying to get some books for my daughter who is in S1, books are either too young or they all have a blurb that alludes to the main character's sexual preferences

GenerativeAIBot · 17/11/2024 21:28

TofuTart · 17/11/2024 21:24

The OP hasn't said anything about that, she's worried about her DD reading about gay or lesbian characters.

Trying to get some books for my daughter who is in S1, books are either too young or they all have a blurb that alludes to the main character's sexual preferences

I wasn’t replying to the OP.

Tandora · 17/11/2024 21:40

Lifeofthepartay · 17/11/2024 20:25

Listen, I really couldn't care less about being labelled homophobic because the gay people in my life know I am not. However I still don't necessarily want my kids to be given so much information that i feel they do not need at a young age. The same way I don't give them books about war, or murder or other sexual preferences that some people would argue are natural (as LGBTQ). And yes as parents we make decisions for our kids ..shocker huh?! People in this thread are advocating for LGBTQ rights yet their knowledge and assumptions seem pretty bad tbh.

The same way I don't give them books about war, or murder or other sexual preferences that some people would argue are natural

Why are you comparing being gay to war and murder? Being gay is not something horrific, harmful or perverted.

a child reading a story that contains a gay relationship is no different or less appropriate than reading a story that contains a straight relationship.

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