Is pre teen a narcissist?

[Preteenstruggle]

DS is 12.
Last Friday at school he got an internal isolation and detention for doing something disrespectful around remembrance day in class. I support the school, the sanction matches the action.

He got back from school on Friday and took himself to his bedroom. I tried talking to him about it and he just shouts and deflects it. Says what can I teach him about history.
He has sent himself to his room, I haven’t told him to or grounded him. I just want to talk about why he did it, the importance of Remembrance Day, then we can move on.
So since Friday, he has been out of his room only for school and for breakfast/dinner/lunch. Then straight back to his room after shouting at everyone about how we shout at him.
We haven’t shouted at him, but I have told him this isn’t going away. We will discuss it and life doesn’t move forward until we do.

This has been a week now. He is a very sociable boy. Talks to friends on the PlayStation (in the lounge), plays football out the front, goes fishing at weekends. So he’d rather give all that up, instead of just talking to me about the stupid thing he did. A whole week without interaction with his friends is unheard of.

So here’s the thing. DH thinks he is a narcissist.
Theres other traits that he has, doesn’t seem to have empathy, love bombs people to get what he wants, uses them. Lies ALOT, and won’t take responsibility for his actions, blames everyone else, always someone else’s fault.

I have always let things slide (I think because he’s love bombed me and convinced me he wasn’t wrong), but this I’m not letting slide because I feel very strongly about it and wonder if my husband is right. It is like he hates being wrong and so point blank won’t talk about it.

To add, a couple of days ago, when he was down for dinner, he’d given the dog a sausage I’d literally just got out the oven. I said not to as he was doing it because it’s so hot. Then comes, oh here you go, moaning at me again. Dog woffs the sausage down, only for a second later to vomit back up. As I was explaining it’s because it burnt her throat, he walks off back upstairs choosing to have no dinner that night. DH said see, he can’t admit he was wrong and you were right. He’s rather be hungry all night than say sorry.

I feel this week has really opened my eyes.
He can be such a lovely boy, can be fun to be around, but yes, also makes me (and his dad and sister) feel like we walk on eggshells alot of the time.

I guess im asking for advice on how to get him to talk to me and also if he does have narcassist traits, how we deal with that

The reason most psychiatrist will not diagnose personality disorders until a person is at least 18 is because this sort of stuff is normal behaviour in children and teens

I feel quite sorry for your son

Honestly I think it was all simpler when most parents disciplined properly, you wouldn't get this shit of stuff dragging on for a week.

I don’t know what your DS did but I think a lot of 12 year olds have limited capacity to engage with Remembrance Day as it is so far removed from the context of their lives.

He was correctly punished at school and I think my approach at home would have been to convey disappointment and try and talk about what and why the incident happened to open up conversation, rather than make a judgement and punish.

Pre-teens and teens do silly things to show off. They can then find it difficult to feel and deal with their embarrassment and disappointment in themselves so they shut themselves off and lash out - verbally and behaviourally.

Grounding him without discussion cuts him off….i would try to focus on helping him to identify and acknowledge his shortcomings and feelings.

Its okay to make mistakes if you make amends.

The kid is "voluntarily" skipping his dinner, time with friends, activities and time on his console.

How exactly do you discipline that?

How old is he, may I ask? Just curious

Actually yea they can, do your research. Many adult-diagnosed narcissists showed almost identical behaviour from mid childhood age

How exactly do you discipline that?

I mean more that if they'd just firmly dealt with it, it wouldn't have come to that. But for that you need a household where being rude and refusing to engage wit your parents isn't an option in the first place.

@VegTrug the issue is many children display narcissistic behaviours and then they grow out of them. It can be purely developmental. Or , sadly, what we see as narcissistic/selfish behaviours , are actually a result of abuse, trauma, neglect etc.

That's why you can't and shouldn't diagnose kids or write them off as narcissists at young ages.

Honestly, I think it's much more likely that he's embarrassed and ashamed about what happened and is fronting it out. These are big emotions to deal with when you're 12!

Having worked with teenagers with emotional and behavioural difficulties, I can tell you that the most important thing is forging a relationship of trust (which can be hard when they've dealt with a lot of rejection and punishment for their behaviour) can you approach him in a calm moment and say that you're not angry, you love him and want to understand how he is feeling? He needs a non judgemental approach if you want him to open up. He's been punished in school so it's dealt with. Please don't continue with this stand off, it helps nobody.

It's not that common though. They're NPD is the new I'm a little bit OCD. Just as ableist, because both conditions are painful and debilitating for sufferer and those around them too often.

Exactly! Even as parents we can't always be sure that something damaging hasn't happened to our kids. Maybe a stranger touched them innappropriately or they've been bullied or something? Best we can do is keep the lines of communicating open.

Ive done just that tonight. I sat on his bed and spoke to him. Got into bed with him cos I was cold and he let me give him a cuddle. Admittedly he didn’t really say a lot, but he did let me speak and he was listening.

@hairbearbunches I wanted my dad gone too as a teenager. We didn't get on at all . I'm not a narcissist (not v strategic or Machiavellian in my thinking) and I don't lack empathy . But I was a teenager who wanted to have a mother and no father. I thought I deserved better than a father who was critical at times . I wanted a more laid back quiet house not an intense environment of needy and volatile people with problems. I was a bratty teenager who wanted my own way. Then I grew up. Its normal.

That's great ☺️ doesn't matter that he didn't say much, it's just good to start communicating again and ending the stand off that's developed!

he must be so relieved. It must’ve been unimaginably stressful for him.

Yes, you should have gone into his room on the day it happened to talk to him about it. Not let it drag on for a week! You’re giving him too much power. He doesn’t get to decide when/if to speak to you about this - it’s not an option. Glad to hear you’ve done it now.

He’s 12. His brain won’t be fully cooked till he’s at least 25.

Discipline is maybe less fashionable these days, maybe? I used to be sceptical about those who moaned about younger generations not being disciplined enough but lately it seems kids rule the roost . There was a thread the other day about kids in schools identifying as cats. I grew up in the 80s and if I had tried that stunt I would have been given a litter tray and possibly had my nose rubbed in it to boot! That would cure a lot of these modern day isshoos kids have I think.

@Noseybookworm 🥰

Its absolutely NOT normal 12 year old behaviour. He sounds absolutely horrendous to live with. Is he unresponsive to any kind of sanction given by you? Is there something going on st school or has he always been like this?

Truly awful post @Preteenstruggle

It's one thing to sling psychobabble about with regards to irritating adults in your life but to label your child a narcissist is both very foolish and just plain mean.

NPD is not a diagnosis dispensed to young people and it is also a label rarely dispensed because the very nature of the disorder means the person is unlikely to seek treatment.

Much more likely that you need to take a good look at yourself to the point of therapy if indeed your child is to have a hope of growing up feeling cherished.

Sometimes it’s hard to know if behaviour is developmentally normal or if there is something that needs to be addressed. If you feel there is anything concerning talk to a children’s psychologist. It might just be that you both as parents need to change your approach.

But if you have a feeling something is not right it can’t hurt to get some advice. Having seen a child that is most likely a psychopath have terrifying behaviour dismissed (it’s nothing like you described) has always made me more cautious.

I think it’s difficult to know if a set of behaviours are permanent or if kids will grow out of them. I would focus on trying to tackle the behaviours, don’t label him right now because he may just grow out if it with a good bit of nudging.

Honestly though people don’t get to 18 and suddenly have personality disorders, there are going to be signs in some kids that all is not well. I would focus on trying to work on those things and empathy. He may be absolutely lovely in ten years.

I think your husband is the one driving this idea that the child is a narcissist. The dh is being idiotic.