To think the "my child - I'll raise them how I like" attitude has gone too far now

[AggyCampbellBlack]

Inspired by, but not about, a recent thread by a grandmother.

Our individualistic culture, especially with its tendency for young adults to move across the country (e.g., for university/jobs), is isolating parents from broader family wisdom/traditions, and we just celebrate it.

I did this. DH and I moved city to study, and for our careers. We had kids and brought them up very "independently", as advised by current NHS/baby advice trends. It was really, really hard. Now, although we're all fine and basically happy, I wish I had stayed near my family, and that my kids had been brought up by the proverbial "village" (extended family and childhood/family friends). Because, surprise surprise, loving older women (in particular) who've done it before sometimes can contribute SO much better than NHS booklets, etc. Now my parents are old, and although we've seen lots of them, I wish we lived round the corner and that they could have had daily contact and input with my kids. As would have likely happened a few generations ago.

I feel like our society has done a number on us. We're increasingly individualistic, isolated and looking to centralised, state-endorsed advice/support, at the expense of extended families. And I think we're more miserable and disconnected as a result.

AIBU?

I think society has been mobile for a long time and although there are some families who maintain close ties, by no means all do. I have hoards of cousins I never see. Brief family history shows that one side moved from a rural area 120 yrs ago to coal and ships city, for work. In turn, my own parents moved and moved again as my father got promoted and we ended up in London. Half my family is in Australia and the other half scattered over the UK. I have no idea where some are now. I don't think we are unusual.

Isn't it also an issue that grandparents are now having to work until well into their sixties, when a few decades ago Granny would be well retired by 60 and at home ready and waiting to welcome her grandchildren and do baking and crafts with them? Now she's running on the spot trying to keep her house tidy, batch cook for the forthcoming week and spending the week working full time.

Well you xan only live your live once, so it is impossible to compare what would have been the better choice. I think it's natural to mull over what might have been

I think people have always moved for work but in past there was much more of an informal network so you’d call neighbours or mums friends Auntie. There’s frequently posts on here where people are in a bind have no one to ask to mind toddler for an hour whilst they go to an essential medical appointment. The it takes a village and people would have intervened and corrected children whereas there’s a reluctance to get involved now.

You chose to move away, society hasn’t made you do that. Some people chose better pay over being near family or better house prices or whatever but plenty of people don’t and stay near their family.

I am close to my parents and just spent my time caring for them while raising babies/toddlers.

I think there is a loss of community knowledge around things like breastfeeding and a village being able to give parents a break but I don’t think we should be relying on community wisdom over evidence in many aspects such as car seat safety, weaning, safe sleep, development.

Just because you are geographical close to extended family doesn’t mean they will help you out. I moved from my family and I sometimes wish we were closer and they could have a closer relationship with DC but I’ve always been quite independent anyway, I’m not sure I would be relying on them for help if I was closer.

I have a number of Indian friends.

They do not like the culture of having to listen to their parents and put up with whatever was considered best practice child rearing in a rural part of India 30 years ago.

They particularly don't like the attitudes to girls.

Older women can offer a massive amount. That also, unfortunately, includes mysogyny and sexism and some frankly seriously unsafe child rearing advice.

Yes and no.

I'm incredibly lucky my mum came to live closer to me. However many people don't get on with their parents so well. This isn't entirely new, they were just forced into submission. Imagine living next door to a mil or phil that hates you or one you get on with fine in small doses. We have more freedom now but it has come at a cost.

I can see my parents house from mine. Similarly, my aunt and one of her daughters houses have connected gardens.
It is lovely to bring your children up with their grandparents IF you get on with them and IF they respect your wishes and boundaries. But if they don't then you will have big issue that can cause rifts as it's not just about putting up with it for a fleeting visit a couple of times a year.

My grandparents didn't do that for my parents and were generally very toxic so my parents moved 150 miles away and whilst we were all a close family in the 90s with family dropping in before we moved I haven't seen extended family really for about 20 years apart from my grandparents who are now dead.

You made your choices, don't start with Society made me do it!
Lots of people stay where they are from, lots move home when they have kids. Those of us who don't obviously don't want to, or we would.

Make your choices and stand by them. Quit complaining after the fact

I also think it's difficult to avoid jealousy, competitiveness and comparisons in large extended families. It's not always about helping out. But also who's doing better. This could be a force for good but can also tip over. Imagine living next door to a whole lot of cousins who are doing GCSEs at the same time as you are and then also grandparents who can't help but compare.

What NHS advice tells you to bring your child up independently ie without any support?

Yes it is more difficult to raise children without any support network. I know, I’m in that situation too.

There are however many other complications relating to remaining within the same small community for the rest of your life too.

I'm also curious about this NHS advice. Can you link to it? Was following that advice the reason you moved far away from family? Somehow I doubt it. Ultimately, you made the choice to move away, and it's no one's fault but your own.

For various reasons, I brought my kids up far from my family, but I created my own village in my new home.

I see my parents 3 or 4 times a week with my children. By contrast, my grandparents lived 200 miles away when I was growing up and I think my mum in particular felt very lonely as a new mum back in the 80s. She has often said to me how nice it is to have so many baby groups nearby nowadays and how she would have loved more opportunities to meet other mums. She did eventually make connections with other mums through the women's institute's weekly coffee morning. I think people have an innate desire to want connection with others. If family is close by, you won't think about it so much, but if you are not near family (or not near family you want to be near) then I think you seek it out through baby groups, children's centres, chats in the park or other activities.

Your relatives are no less likely than anyone else to be out of date/out of touch/plain wrong about child-rearing issues, which is why it's always good to have a range of opinions available.

I live in my home town, near my parents and whilst it’s good in some ways (nice safe area, help with DC, lots of familiar faces), the downsides are that we’re sometimes in each others’ pockets too much (and we argue). I also get very tired of our nice but boring town and wish I’d lived in a greater variety of places.

It's particularly noticeable in UK, yes.
I'm from abroad originally and always notice that it's very different to be bringing children up in UK vs home.
For example.. MIL lives 5 min away, kids cousins about 20min. We see MIL monthly, cousins twice a year.
Abroad, they'd see granny at least weekly, same with cousin, extended family nonthly. Kids are part of weddings, funerals etc.
Here I think kids get excluded from a lot of family stuff. I'm not sure of reasons, part if it is probably dual working but part is cultural (no one just pops in for a quick visit)

I agree. I wish people weren’t under so much pressure to move away for work. The warmth and support of an extended family and neighbors you have known for decades has been lost. Our society has been pushed in all the wrong directions

What NHS advice tells you to bring up your children independently and without family help?

Straight from the Daily Fail 😂

To clarify, I don't mean the NHS advised to bring up children independently of family. I meant that we brought them up independently, and that we used NHS advice/guidance rather than looking to family for this. Apologies for the ambiguous sentence.

As to those saying I'm "blaming" society... do you really think we make decisions in a vacuum? I'm very lucky to have had the choices I had, and I know that every day. But within my social context, I was heavily influenced by trends towards going to a high status university and pursuing a career. Of course we're influenced by these things. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise, IMHO.

What NHS advice tells you to bring up children away from extended family?

Really?! Would like to read if so.... 😂

My family's moved its way around the country for at least the past century. There was a lot of movement in the industrial revolution and much harder to retain connections in the absence of affordable transport and much communication.

Large families often fragmented into smaller factions either due to personaities or logistics.

Staying local does not necessarily mean support for many reasons.

Having taught in areas where families tend to stay in small geographical areas, it can even result in multi-generational feuds!

I'm not saying that staying local is a bad thing, it works for many people, but it's not automatically a great thing either.