To think the "my child - I'll raise them how I like" attitude has gone too far now

[AggyCampbellBlack]

Inspired by, but not about, a recent thread by a grandmother.

Our individualistic culture, especially with its tendency for young adults to move across the country (e.g., for university/jobs), is isolating parents from broader family wisdom/traditions, and we just celebrate it.

I did this. DH and I moved city to study, and for our careers. We had kids and brought them up very "independently", as advised by current NHS/baby advice trends. It was really, really hard. Now, although we're all fine and basically happy, I wish I had stayed near my family, and that my kids had been brought up by the proverbial "village" (extended family and childhood/family friends). Because, surprise surprise, loving older women (in particular) who've done it before sometimes can contribute SO much better than NHS booklets, etc. Now my parents are old, and although we've seen lots of them, I wish we lived round the corner and that they could have had daily contact and input with my kids. As would have likely happened a few generations ago.

I feel like our society has done a number on us. We're increasingly individualistic, isolated and looking to centralised, state-endorsed advice/support, at the expense of extended families. And I think we're more miserable and disconnected as a result.

AIBU?

I think it depends on the family. Some people move away for very good reasons.

I agree to an extent. Loving relationships with extended family can be amazing for children. My DM is an abusive arsehole, so my relationship with my granny is something I look back on even more fondly now.

But i disagree about the wisdom of the older generations. I am always going to follow the science backed route. The NHS pamphlets are going to be far more valuable than following how my MIL did things in the early 80s. If I had listened to my MILs advice then my DC would have had unsafe sleep, a terrible diet and no car seat after 6 months old.

I live just round the corner from my mum. She never comes over unless I ask and then she spends the whole time picking at my parenting choices. I’m aware she’s not the norm though (I hope!)

I could have posted that thread.

We've gained nothing by moving and chasing promotions for DH, which cost me my career. My Dad is ill, I'm too far away. The kids haven't grown up with their wider family around them and we've had difficult times and faced them without support. We are still heavily mortgaged as we kept moving and couldn't get or stay on the ladder. DH's employment is niche now so we are a bit stuck.
We've encouraged our kids to go away for uni and employment, I wish we hadn't. One is struggling and we miss them.

Whilst I realise there will be posters who say they have no family, or toxic family and that's awful. But if you have decent family I think there's a lot to lose by moving away. The wisdom of elders is less a thing though, some of the baby raising advice that my mum recieved from family was jaw dropping.

I don't think the English (I can't speak for Britain as a whole) have ever been wildly family or community orientated. I was born in 1957 and grew up in a small'ish village. It was a friendly place and mum got on well with everyone but you couldn't just go and plonk your toddler on someone or ask for favours too often without raising eyebrows. In fact, people kept pretty much to themselves. Maybe it's a regional thing. I've always believed that the north country has more community spirit with people in and out of each other's houses.

However, I would point out that individualistic societies are also very strict about enforcing gender norms

Really?? I would say the tight-knit Yorkshire mining community I grew up in was far worse about shaming women over slatternly housework, not having your husband’s tea ready on the table etc than the people my family mostly associate with now, where it’s expected that the male partner will pull his weight as the female partner is also holding down a demanding job.

I'm from the North. Massive farming family (although we didn't live in a farm) with a matriarch ruling the roost. Like Emnerdale in the days of Annie Sugden but without the money and murders 😅. People certainly didn't keep themselves to themselves.

My family have kept our village. I live in my home town and so do my three adult DC, their dad and extended family, no one has gone anywhere. My children had active grandparent care and I now provide the same to DGC. We all had our choices, with opportunities to leave. We travel and live near a major city so have diverse cultural influences and friendship groups and are by no means insular. Just never felt the need to go and deliberately live in another town away from each other.

Moving has had costs - parental health decline does again bring that into focus - if we'd stayed we wouldn't have had afforded a house as prices are high there or had such good income.

It sounds really lovely, especially without the murders!

We were told four different opinions on feeding frequency for our son in hospital! And one midwife determinedly tucked his umbilical cord inside his nappy.

I guess the pace of change in advice is slower between generations, which is bad in some ways (dangerous and outdated), good in others (ignores trendy and unnecessary).

I wouldn't say the NHS discourage social bonds. There was a whole section in the antenatal course about how it is standard in other cultures for women to be looked after for a period after birth, with all chores done by family.

I live in the same town as my parents and about 45 min from dh parents.

My mum was in poor health from her fifties. Dad worked full time until he was 65 and has never done any parenting. So I never had any support /involvement from my parents rather I have been caring for them for many years. My children don't see loads of them as my parents struggle with noise/disruption.

We see dh parents a couple times a month and it's always us going to them. I wouldn't say the kids are overly close to them

I agree. I moved away and I regret it now. Life would be simpler and my children's links with extended family would have been closer .

Hmm depends, we moved quote far away and it’s hard. But my in-laws are quite religious and theres a deep seated patriarchy there that I don’t want my child to see as normal. They are nice people but I’m not sure I would want my DC to believe that it’s normal (think women in the kitchen, men watching football).

It’s equally ridiculous to suggest that people only move away for ‘high-status’ reasons. Poverty has always made people move to where work is, whether that’s ten miles or 10,000. Both sides of my family have been dirt poor as far back as I’m aware, and although we’re from Ireland, I have relatives living in NYC, New Jersey, Illinois, Wales, Australia, Canada London and Birmingham, and those are only the ones I know about. Some left after the Famine and died at sea, or passed through Ellis Island and were never heard from again.

Being able to stick close to family wisdom is a luxury.

We moved close to my in laws before starting a family and I'm very glad we have a village close by.

It's true people have choices. But it is tricky - I think people in their 30s and 40s were encouraged to go away to uni, really believed we'd have wonderful careers in London and thought tbf children rearing could wait and wouldn't be too difficult ie no help needed. I think reality doesn't match expectations then people complain.

But it's probably a good thing to complain sometimes as it makes younger people more aware of the trade offs.

It's a bit of both. Societal expectations for the capitalist dream that when you get there isn't that great as shown here. There's a price to pay that isn't mentioned until it's too late x

I think you're underestimating how far people moved from their families in the past OP. I've stayed in my hometown, but my parents both moved to completely different cities twice before I was born, and then again after I was born, to where I consider my hometown.

My grandparents all moved over 200 miles before settling down, and while the distance may have been a lot less for my great grandparents, the time to go visit family would have still been about a 4 hour trip, due to tiny Welsh Valley roads and crappy cars. And they didn't even have reliable phone calls to keep in touch with family, it was mostly done by post.

People have always left home, even if it was just to the next village. I'd wager it's a lot easier to keep that family link these days with motorways and video calls etc than it was 150 years ago.

I can’t point to a generation within my working class family that didn’t move for work. Including emigrating. For well over a century.

We’re not disconnected. We reflect the reality of those who do not enjoy the benefits of intergenerational wealth; we follow the work that keeps us afloat.

Family connection is great if you can maintain it and understandably, people have always migrated for different reasons.
The issue, I think, is people's inability to build communities.
When my daughter was in primary school, I could call another parent to pick my daughter up if my parents were unavailable and she'd be well looked after until I collected her. I was also happy to do the same for others.
We had a mom who was a newly qualified nurse whose family lived abroad, and we helped her with pickups when she needed to work beyond afterschool hours. We helped her during the holidays, as she lived round the corner from me and we generally banded together to ensure the children were okay.
That is what I think is missing in our mobile society.

This is a good point, My maternal grandparents moved from Ireland to London and went back a couple of times a year but had no help with children. My maternal grandparents and their ancestors for a few generations lived roughly in the same area but actually with lack of transport probably rarely saw each other as a 10 mile journey took alot longer back then and they would have had less leisure time. My maternal aunts and uncles all scattered to different coastal areas and we also moved
150miles away from London when I was little - for the sea and to get out of the city more than anything, I initially moved away for uni and work but came back when pregnant with DD.

Interestingly my maternal ancestors were seafarers and Captains during Tudor times and afterwards, founding families of some parts of America and Canada so it's always been said that's why we all moved away to the sea as it's in our blood.

I think if you live somewhere half decent and your family and friends are half decent, and you can get work, it pays dividends to stick around.

The emotional and practical support everyone gets from a good local network and good local knowledge is irreplaceable.
The more friends and family that stay - the better for that network.

I have done this and my child is an only child and now a teen. His dad died unexpectedly 2 years ago and we still feel very supported and connected locally. It has helped massively. I went away for uni then came back to my home town and I am so glad I did.

Another reason for kids to come back after uni is so they can bring all their skills and experience back - rather than a town becoming a sink and not progressing.

I actually thought this thread would be about something quite different from the title (maybe about entitled parenting or something).

But having read your post I do in part agree with you and think many children tend to thrive when they have loving relationships with a wide family; aunts, uncles, cousins and grandparents nearby. I did the same as you OP and also was raised in this way. I didn't suffer really, nor did my kids but I found raising small children without family support v hard and I missed my wider family a great deal, as did my children theirs. That said if you are part of a large damaged or dysfunctional family, it may well be worse. So, as with most things it very much depends on circumstances.

I don't quite follow the link between the post and the title.

Anyway, I'm in a similar position. Both moved to pursue careers and now live over 2 hours from respective families. It does make parenting tougher as we rarely get a break, but that was our choice.

Re parenting advice. I'm not sure how much that has to do with how far you live from your families, especially given the internet and social media. My mum would hold her hands up and say she's not the best person to ask for advice on child rearing, although she's a great support for me personally.