HR are lying? Aibu to be worried?

[ijustwanttodu]

So HR have fabricated an entire meeting. I had a meeting with them and they said we discussed this issue with you a year ago.

They claim I was taken into a small room and talked to by someone who has since left. 3 weeks into me starting there. I was taken aback and said what date was this and she got quite flustered and tried to change the subject and then gave me the vague answer of what month it occurred. And then she said all this bad stuff about me, how I kept coming into work late during that time.

I don’t know why she would do this.

Have you asked them to let you see your personal file/record? Any meetings and interactions would have some kind of record, of that, in your file.

So you have done something which you do admit deserves action by HR currently but just deny there was an issue before.

If you are worried they are going to use the first incident as further evidence in regard to whatever you have done this time then yes ask for a copy of the reviews relating to that.

The reality is something is happening now that needs addressing whether a prior discussion took place or not.

This sums it up perfectly.

If they cannot provide proof that the meeting happened, then they cannot use it as part of whatever the current issue is.

So essentially, you're in trouble for a reason we can't discuss. As part of this clandestine scenario, it appears that HR are attempting to demonstrate the existence of previous discussions - whether by deliberate fabrication or because they were told that the meeting genuinely happened we don't know.

Either way, it's possible that they may be using this to start a performance improvement process/other course of action. I don't know but am not allowed to ask.

Keep pushing for the meeting minutes and take it from there.

I appreciate that you're upset about this but you'll resolve this a lot quicker by politely pointing out that there seems to be a mistake.

Calling people liars isn't going to resolve anything here. Take a deep breath and calmly request the facts and take it from there. If a meeting didn't take place that can easily be proven.

The tone you've been using towards people on this thread, who've been trying to help you, hasn't been pleasant to see. I understand this is stressful for you but I'd kindly recommend that you don't use that tone at work. If you communicate kindly and firmly I'm sure you'll get a better response.

OP, HR work for the company, their job is essentially to protect the company from the employees (of which they are one). Do not trust HR.

I would also be wary of using the word ‘fabricating’ about the HR person. It may be what you think but it’s not something I would say out loud as it’s quite an accusation to make. It may she was told and the person who told her was the one lying, for example.

Just keep saying you have no recollection of it, that’s safer language.

What seems odd from information given is that HR seems to be dealing with something directly rather than acting in support of the manager. Even if it’s something triggered in the HR system like absence, it’s still for the manager to deal with, albeit sometimes with support from HR to ensure the process is followed.

HR will know that previous undocumented incidents and heresay cannot be relied upon in a current process. If something has become an ongoing problem and with hindsight they regret not formalising sooner, that’s tough, they need to start now. Even an ‘informal’ conversation should have been noted.

Email your manager to record that you had this conversation and she didn't recall any meeting last year. Don't leave wriggle room.
Also, speak to ACAS about this and get their advice.

Why is your manager worried, if neither of you recall any meeting or discussion and there's no record or minutes then that's the end of it. Did your now manager speak to you at the time and perhaps didn't record it and everyone is getting muddled up. I know you don't want to tell us but something has triggered this but we don't know the situation or current issue so how can we help.

If it was a real meeting they will be able to provide minutes of that meeting. Because it would be irresponsible for HR to have un-minuted meetings.

Do you have your entire email available since you started and can you search for anything from HR?

If you feel it's a shitty move then look for another job.

So the OP is being spoken to by HR about something not stated but which they admit is a legitmate concern. Rightly or wrongly HR believe that this is the second time it has been discussed with the OP. Whilst it might be fair enough to point out that the earlier meeting doesn't seem to have happened, the OP is focussed on trying to prove that HR are wrong and/ or are lying. And if their posts here are anything to go by, in a less than diplomatic way. They don't think the reason that they are now being spoken to is relevant to anything.

The reality is that the issue now is a problem - the problem - and it doesn't actually matter what did or didn't happen 12 months ago. Caution might have suggested that "I think you may have confused me with someone else as there wasn't a meeting last year, but let's focus on how we can resolve this immediate problem...." would have been the better approach.

At 18 months this is the time to start looking for another job. When HR have 6 months left to come for you, they will always win.

I mean I don’t know if she’s worried, she just looked worried when I told her. But she might have just been confused.

The meeting they said happened was with another person in HR (someone I don’t even know) and myself.

No manager was involved and I’ve had the same manager since I started.

Yes it does matter what happened 12 months ago. HR can’t just make up meetings and say I was spoken to about SEPARATE issues - which my manager even said I didn’t do.

I’ve looked and I can’t find anything.

The month they said it happened I had quite a few days annual leave too (all booked correctly) and it was Christmas and I had that whole week off.

I just don’t understand why they would lie and make this up. And be very adamant that it was true and when I said “I shouldn’t be here then if that happened within weeks of me starting this job” and she just smiled smugly at me.

I just think this is a way of getting me out, which is confusing as my manager has very much put in place things for me that are very long term and would be a complete waste of time me doing if she wanted me out. I’ve never known a HR department like this before, and I’ve worked in similar companies.

I don’t want to be that paranoid freak but it seems like HR just don’t like me and it’s within their power to get rid of me and so they will.

Yes you should be worried.

HR would only be raising this if there was a current situation they are trying to address with you.

Having an earlier performance or disciplinary meeting on record strengthens their case and potentially moves you to the next phase of any procedure which could impact on pay, promotion or even result in dismissal.

Take a look at the relevant company policies to see how this earlier meeting impacts the procedure they are following and the possible outcomes for you.

Above try to find any evidence that this meeting could not have happened. Have you got any emails or anything that shows you were working when the meeting was supposed to have taken place?

Are there any emails from your manager relating to this meeting? An agenda, an invitation or a follow up summary of the discussion. It is the manager’s responsibility to document any formal meetings which they record with HR.

This seems strange op if your manager has no issue with your performance. I'd have thought any issue that would bring you in front of hr should have your manager involved. Is it a redundancy type of issue that's affecting a few people or is this something performance or absence related that's specific to you? The first would explain why your manager isn't being consulted but if its the second then I don't understand it at all because why wouldn't your manager be involved? Is it like a complaint type of grievance and could it be from someone who has connections in hr?

I think it would be really beneficial to get yourself in a union ASAP and any further meetings make sure you ask for your union rep to be present at them (it's your right). I'd ask for written minutes of any meetings that have been held so far including the ones they are referencing prior to now and the date they occurred. And I'd be asking your union rep what a reasonable time scale is for them to provide this so you can hold them to account. I'd try to get copies of all company policies related to whatever is happening and I'd make sure you check if there are older versions that would have been in place when you supposedly had that other meeting you think they are fabricating as whatever policy was in place then was what you would have been working under. Don't do any meetings alone from here on in.

I can’t find any evidence of the meeting and when I pushed her to tell me when it was she gave me a very vague answer of what month it was. I’ve since pushed it further and said please provide the actual date which at this point she has ignored.

I’ve looked at every meeting in that month - nothing. I’ve searched my email (there’s no retention policy) for the name of the person she said I met with - again nothing. I’m sure I’ve never interacted with this person ever.

I don’t understand the lie when it can so easily be disproved.

See you say about not having meetings alone, which obviously I agree to.

However, when HR did speak to me they just called me through Teams. There was no invite, only my manager said they would be calling (she wasn’t on the call), HR themselves didn’t send a quick message to tell me or (like I said) send an invite.

So surely they should have scheduled a time rather than randomly calling me? Makes me wonder if they did it to “catch me out”, by hoping I wasn’t there to answer and that would be another cross against my performance. And she never sent a follow up email after said call, despite the accusations she made against me. And like I said she has since ignored my attempt at further information.

If they cannot prove the meeting happened, it didn’t happen. The absence of any meeting in the diary, emails or communication about the meeting prove that. This is particularly true for any formal meeting with HR as records are needed for just this type of situation. They need to evidence they followed procedures when taking any action against an employee.

A lawyer would rip this to shreds.

Having been through a grievance and a tribunal, both of which I won, I came to the conclusion that if HR's lips were moving, they were lying.
What you say is worrying, and they need to provide written proof of this supposed meeting.
You say that this makes you want to find another job - maybe listen to this feeling? They don't sound a good place to work.

I don’t want to find another job, but this is telling me I need to.

I don’t think my manager wants me to go but HR seemingly do. I’m not at a great point in my life and I think worrying constantly that they are out to get me or watching me is too much to cope with 5 days a week. I mean it’s the weekend now and the worry of what they are doing has completely taken over time where I shouldn’t be thinking about work.

Might not be my situation but it’s sad when people are in roles of power and they abuse that for absolutely no reason.

Is it possible this is a clerical error or mistaken identity? That the meeting a year ago was with Sam(uel) Jones, not Sam(antha) Jones, for example?

It sounds like they’re trying to get rid of you. Are you sure it was worry on your managers face and not concern that HR had messed up and so you might be trickier to get rid of?
I’d be amazed if HR wanted rid of you, when your manager doesn’t. I’d say it’s more likely your manager is getting HR to do the dirty work.
No matter what, if you’ve worked there for under 2 years they can let you go with whatever notice is in your contract - unless you have a protected characteristic.

I can't see why hr would want to jyst get rid of someone, they don't usually even know who they employ, it can't of just come out of nowhere, if your manager has always been happy with your work why would hr even get involved.