Adult daughter relationship with mother

[Axelotolsarecute]

Just looking for other views on this, especially from those with adult children.

I hadn't the best childhood for many reasons. I have had extensive therapy and dealt with this. Some of my childhood was difficult due to my parents marriage, my mother being largely absent emotionally. As an adult I understand this, however it did impact me as a child. As I said, I've dealt with this myself, never confronting my mother, she's old now and I don't want to upset her.

Fast forward to now. I'm in my 40's. I decided to divorce DH for many reasons, emotional neglect being one. My mother will not accept my reasoning and support me. Every phone call is loaded with her disapproval, she said DH is like a son to her and seems to be taking his side, he meanwhile is sitting there looking like he had f**k all to do with the marriage breakdown.

I've been lectured about staying with him for the kids that that's what she did. He's not beating me so what's wrong with me. I long ago decided to never have it out with her about my childhood but I snapped and said her and dad shouldn't have stayed together for us kids, it damaged all of us. But oh no, she's going on and on, judging me and practically looking at me with hate. So I've gone no contact for now.

At this stage I feel, I'm an adult woman, a mother, that she has crossed my boundaries for the last time. She's always been too involved with her kids personal lives, she did something similar to my brother.

Some family are telling me, oh you'll miss her when she's gone, I'd give anything to speak to my mum, it's so hurtful when a child doesn't speak to a parent etc. It seems she has free reign to speak to me as she wants and I'm wrong.

I feel everyone is on my back, I've no support.

I'd be interested in other mum's who have adult kids and their opinion on this.

I know I'm not being unreasonable, my family are toxic at times but I'd appreciate any views, support or advice.

You are beginning to sound a bit victim blamey now. OP has said:

I genuinely have been a very good daughter. I make it my business to not upset her. I've looked after both my parents in different ways. I continue to ensure my mum is very comfortable financially as she was left broke after my dad died. I do that myself, not my brothers, I never want thanks for it or make a big deal of it.

OP's mum gave her a really difficult childhood and she can't even support her own daughter going through a divorce and is taking her ex-husband's side. OP's mum sounds like the dictionary definition of a toxic parent.

My DM also dealt me and siblings an emotionally neglectful childhood and amazingly has sustained it into adulthood. To this day she manages to make it all about herself and doesn't so much as give me and other siblings, apart from the golden child, a sideways glance. Siblings are mostly NC. I keep in contact with DF and DM for my DC sake as no other DGPs or relatives around. I have cut all emotional involvement with my DM. She largely ignores me, never responds to texts.

My upbringing ruined all chances of any healthy relationships. I am divorced and I initially got the same jibes from DM. I quickly told her to cut that shit out. I no longer crave her approval for every single thing so I couldn't care less what she says or thinks.

It's very sad what we go through as daughters of shit mothers.

Yeah my mum thought my exDH was a great guy coz he could patch his own jeans and cook dinner. The small fact that he had a massive drink problem and a personality change every time he was drunk was overlooked.

So sorry you are dealing with this OP.

Maybe they are looking to you to provide the happy ending / fairytale marriage that your parents didn’t have.

But whatever, their job is to be sympathetic, empathetic and supportive of you.

Have you told your Mum directly that you have heard her opinion and do not wish to hear it again, and will not have that conversation again?

I would tell her that once, and the next time she starts say “I made my feelings about this clear, and said I would not have this conversation again. if you cannot support me or respect my feelings we have nothing more to say”

And then go no contact.

Sending internet supportive vibes, you deserve better from your family.

Look at today's Guardian(free online) excellent article that is very relevant.

Link?

"‘I never want you around your grandchild’: the families torn apart when adult children decide to go ‘no contact’ | Family | The Guardian" https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/nov/09/the-families-torn-apart-when-adult-children-decide-to-go-no-contact

Many thanks for posting this article, it says far more eloquently some of the things I’ve been trying to say (very much against the flow). Careful of listening to Becca Bland though, her charity Stand Alone has closed. New trustees with excellent backgrounds came on board and she left the charity very soon afterwards, the charity closed with some serious questions as to its previous running (all on CC website). She’s made a lucrative career out of being estranged and is heavily criticised in some circles-her ‘doctor hood’ is honorary. She’s well liked with some because she tells people what they want to hear, especially the “f …. Off brigade”. On the other hand Joshua Coleman, a very experienced psychologist is a real expert in the field and used to do free podcasts. He may still, and also took free questions at times. He looks at estrangement from all angles, is very reflective and tries to make practical suggestions. I do suggest that the OP googles him, and sees whether he helps. He’s written quite a few books and articles. Some of his stuff you have to pay for but also quite a lot is free. Perhaps worth spending an hour or so browsing before making a life changing decision. This article though well balanced didn’t draw out the issue of those who estrange are much more likely to be in their turn estranged. Some children grow up angry about their lack of grandparents or just learn through their parents how to handle differences. Some parents may be lucky, other grandparents are available or they’re just lucky. Some are not and the repercussions of estrangement are felt very heavily by them in later life.

Thanks for your response but I come from a family with it fair share of ups and downs and had to be cared by a grandmother for a while. I do see in my own family how views of family life differ, my brother is far more critical of our parents and I fear may estrange at some time. He’s constantly harping on as to how I was the favourite child, despite wider family, parents and myself not seeing this. People’s’truths’ of the same situation differ widely. I’ve worked with previously looked after children and in a different setting estranged families. What astonishes me looking back is how those with care experiences frequently value what parental concern and involvement they have. The estrangements seem to come from families which may not be ‘perfect’ but where the grievances are not as earth shattering as those with care experiences. With some families it was hard to see any legitimate grievance but there does seem to be some egging on on some websites in the name of “support”. In response to one of your points, parents usually think they’re going to be better parents than their own parents and the sowing of seeds for the next generation is done automatically by the estrangement. Treating your children differently is no guarantee against future estrangements. I know from my work that while the general public often think that estranged parents must have been bad parents that is simply not always the case. Some are obviously but others have given massive support and loved by other family members.

Going back to this OP the mother’s view is probably very different although the OP is clearly a more reasonable person (much more so than some of the other posters on here, “the F….off brigade”).I’m not suggesting the mother’s behaviour shouldn’t be challenged but there’s other options before going nuclear. Perhaps telling her mother she’s really upset by her attitude to the divorce and she has to limit contact for a while. Life does not have to be all or nothing. Also how old is the mother, is it possible there’s some cognitive decline? We missed this with our gran for quite a while as it initially showed as an exaggeration of her previous traits.

I am LC with my own mother, I've looked up what's considered toxic and she's definitely that with bells on but only with me, not my sibling as he is her golden child. It's hurtful and I would give anything to have normal,loving parents. Haven't seen my sibling since last christmas and he barely spoke to me, I've suggested meeting up with the kids but he's not interested. That's up to him but it makes me sad. I take comfort that I'm a decent person, I have a healthy loving marriage that our children see, I love my DC and will never treat them how I have been treated.

Sorry you are upset op. A mother-daughter relationship is so fundamental that it is very distressing when it goes awry.

You describe your mother as being "largely absent emotionally" but then you say, "She's always been too involved with her kids personal lives" so maybe your mum is getting in too deep now, in the mistaken belief that she is making up for previous mistakes? And doing it badly?

I think it's hard for strangers on the internet to comment fairly because you understand the ins and outs of your relationship with your mum much better than we do. It goes without saying that if you feel the need to go nc to protect your mh then that is your right and you absolutely must do that.

But to comment as the mother of two adult dds, with a different perspective, I think a lot of this is about intention and changing parenting styles.

Intention is important because it gets to the nub of why your mum isn't supportive about your reason for getting divorced. You say she is looking at you with hate which must feel horrible. And you are hurt that her loyalties seem to be with your soon-to-be-ex and not with you at a time when you most need support. Do you know what is going through her head? Do you know what the intention is behind those words?

If she truly hates you and is saying this out of jealousy because she didn't have the balls to leave her DH, then you would be right in putting a distance between you. But if she is genuinely concerned and worried say about your financial security, or is anxious it will be very hard for you parenting without your ex living in the same house, or she sincerely thinks you are making a big mistake, because she gets on well with your dh, and only sees the nice "public" side of him, then she is guilty of foolishness but not deliberate hate ifyswim.

One of my sister's has an over-developed sense of fairness and when I severed a friendship once with someone she knew, she wanted to be scrupulously fair to both of us, and I was livid with her for not having my back, but she said it was because she saw fault on both sides and wanted to behave the same with both of us.

It didn't mean she didn't love me, but I found it very upsetting at the time.

Nowadays, looking back, I can't really blame her, if she did genuinely think I was at fault too, because she had an independent relationship with this person. If your mum has developed a friendship over the years with your ex, is she wrong to express sadness about it ending? I can't answer that because it depends again on the intention behind her words and how she phrased it. If she was just thinking selfishly about herself, and not the more serious implications for you, obviously that would be very wrong of her.

As for changing parenting styles, nowadays parents are seen as friends who should always have your back no matter what you do. But back in the day, parenting was more objective and unbiased inasmuch as the emphasis was on producing a good citizen who was polite, productive, hard-working, etc, and the emphasis wasn't so much on the mh or happiness of the child concerned. So if your mum is old, maybe she is applying old fashioned standards to your split, and thinking about the implications for your ex and your dc, and wider friends and family, rather than putting you at the forefront, which is obviously very hurtful because you have obviously considered all of those things. But again, the intention may not be hateful.

I don't know if any of this is helpful op. A lot of it could be wildly off track so feel free to ignore. But I very much doubt your mum hates you, even though it feels like that. 🌷. Even so, it's your right to go nc if the distress she is causing you is unbearable. But I think it's worth trying to have a calm chat to her about your feelings before you do.

Thanks again to everyone for their posts. Marketly, there is lots of good points in your post.

To give some context. My mum is 75, she's had a hard life, something I've understood since a child and I never want to hurt her because of this. I think in some ways she's never sorted our her issues and has played the victim role which in ways she was but she never addressed the issues. A different generation who didn't embrace therapy, had different ways of approaching life, I get all that.

I am gone NC for now as I am so hurt. I feel very alone in the world. I guess I've finally realised that my mum doesn't have my back no matter what and it hurts. To be honest, I shouldn't be surprised, it's always been this way. I've just been like a little girl wanting her love. I do agree she most likely doesn't hate me but that's what it felt like. I'm at a low point, she isn't there and it's just hit me. I am simply past the point of fixing this, I need to prioritise my children.

I don't intend on going NC forever, I will go LC myself with the new realisation that my mum's love is conditional and manage the relationship that way. I would never ever take my grandkids away from her, she's not a monster, they love her and she seems to love them. For me as a parent, I am comfortable with her interaction with them.

I really am appreciative of the time everyone has taken to post.

Yeah, you won't miss this side of her.

I am no contact with both parents. Best thing I ever did, wish I'd done it sooner.

No one should stay in a relationship that makes them miserable, even blood relatives.

My relationship with my own teenage children is great, even in these difficult teenage years.

If your mother makes you unhappy and can't be nice to you, feel free to walk away

You sound eminently and sensible op , and probably more forgiving of your mother than she deserves. It’s good that you are setting a boundary that you feel comfortable with. I am sorry that your mother isn’t offering you the support that you deserve. 💐

All the toxic or not stuff aside you're going through a tough time and she should be supporting you. She's not and not only that she's making unnecessary digs. Yanbu.

At the risk of sounding pompous I really do think you’re handling this well, with compassion and common sense despite all the stress you’re under. So many in your situation cut their mother off from the grandchildren, often cruel to both. I thought your mother was going to be older, 75 is no age nowadays but she’s had a hard life you say. I do hope she realises how you feel and it will push her to being more sensitive. You’ve made your point without going nuclear and I wish you all the best.

I would make a side point about not cutting grandparents off from grandchildren.

I soldiered on with my toxic mother for years because I thought she should have a relationship with her grandchildren. I thought I'd protected them from the worst of her toxic behaviour. When they got to teen age she started treating them in the same abusive way she did me. Toxic parents often become toxic grandparents. I wish I had cut contact earlier.

Statistics quote 1 in 4 children are sexually abused growing up. The vast majority of sexual abuse is commited within a family or by close family friends/trusted people. Families tend to carpet sweep sexual abuse or scapegoat the abused and favour the abuser. Alcohol and drug addiction are common. Personality disorders though rare exist. Mental health disorders are common. I would say toxicity is families is extremely common but estrangement is still pretty rare by comparison.

Sorry my post was supposed to quote the poster who thinks people are too trigger happy with estrangement these days.

Statistics quote no such thing. The NSPCC quote 1 in 20 have been sexually abused and yes most abuse will be in the family but could be by siblings or wider family without parents knowing. Any child sexually abused by a parent has every reason to cut that parent off from contact for future generations. Many estrangements (in my experience) don’t involve abuse. The word “toxic” is often used, usually to imply that all the fault lies with the other party. We’ve seen many contributions on this site thinking that because the mother doesn’t support the daughter’s divorce it’s reason for estrangement. I’m saying I don’t agree and what statistics do show is children with parents who estrange themselves from parents/grandparents are more likely to follow suit. A family tradition. Sorry if it touches a nerve with some people but I’m sticking by what I’ve learnt by experience and studying this issue

Google the organisation 1 in 4. It is Irish based but I see no reason that the UK won’t have the same scale of child sexual abuse. We had to confront the issue in a way the UK has yet had to do but people are people across the world. The name 1 in 4 comes from the estimates of sexual abuse.

@Coffeeloverme you are in denial about the scale of abuse and that is informing your naivety on this thread.

Do what is right for you.

Missing her when she's gone? Maybe. But more likely you'll be grieving for the mother daughter relationship you'd always yearned for.

Here’s a link to the British NSPCC https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/statistics-briefings/child-sexual-abuse. That’s where I got the up to date information, rather than naive I’ve worked in social care with looked after children,I’m aware of the scale. This mention of sexual abuse here is red herring though, this post is about a possible estrangement but nothing to do with sexual abuse. You can’t justify other estrangements because other people estrange because of sexual abuse. In situations of estrangement the belief of some is that the adult child must always have had good reason to estrange and the difficulties are all one sided. This is not the case, adult children can be really trigger happy with estrangement to the despair and deep unhappiness of loving parents (whose other children don’t have a problem with). All I’m saying is that because it’s sometimes justified it isn’t always and could well have repercussions for the grandchildren.

What was your study on and how many families did you look at?
Surely your own experience is by definition, limited?

I don't think anyone on here is suggesting that OP becomes estranged based on her mum not supporting her daughter's divorce - it's the whole picture of her whole life and a culmination of things that make people say this.

Equally, it's highly unlikey that OP would cut contact from a normally loving and supportive parent, based on one single issue. This isn't what we have here.