to think that children in your child's class don't identify as animals?

[wotnofurries]

inspired by the wearing a tail to school thread, I thought I'd see just how common or otherwise the whole furry/litter tray/identify as an animal thing really is.

Unreasonable = Yes, a child in my child's class does this.
Not Unreasonable = Don't be silly, never come across one in my life.

Stop calling girls bitches.

You weren't popular at school? Fine. Stop dressing up openly calling girls bitches with faux concern about kids dressing as cats.

If affects others when we're expected to go along with it. It's not nasty to tell a child they can't be a non existent therian, or a different species.
Most children aren't "nasty bitches" or identifying as impossible things. There's a happy middle ground 99% occupy.

The main difference between the original sub cultures and the new ones is the Internet. Punks, Goths and New Romantics had to work hard to feed their interest in the real world, meeting up, DIY costumes, saving up for gig tickets etc. And it was a subversive rebellion thing - the shock element had a political thrust as well.

These days (Christ, I'm turning into my grandmothers - but perhaps that's not an entirely bad thing as thrmey were pretty wise crones) every whim can be satisfied at the click of a button. There weren't any Therians because who the feck knew what a Therian was?

Obviously it's nice for people to find "their people" and social isolation is an unhealthy thing but these days how do you know who you're connecting with on the Web? If they're even real - or a bot generated to steer one towards the current zeitgeist and whatever colour of pound generation is this week's trend?

A good proportion of Goths / punks hung up their studs and PVC and look fondly back on their wild youth. Some of us didn't but hey, we're at best the entertainment and at worst a terrible warning.

And that is where much of the subject of this thread will likely go too. But children need proper guidance when it goes a step further from imaginative "play" and starts potentially fucking with their perception of reality.

Litter trays may be a myth, and the odd set of ears and tail blown out of proportion, but as the whole trans debate has shown, the way to hell can very much be paved with good intentions (and capitalism without thought or compassion).

I feel for parents these days, I really do, and also for the children struggling with the world we live in. I can choose to opt out and do for the most part because I'm too old for this shit. But I remember peer pressure and loneliness and still occasionally have existential crises because I struggle to "get with the programne" because it changes every five minutes.

So hats off to those navigating the stormy seas of adolescence in this crazy world, both parents and tweens / teens. It's certainly above my paygrade these days.

No, far from the same - but equally, I keep seeing on MN people talking about goths as though they were models of virtue from a Victorian Sunday School book who happened to like black eyeliner, so I thought it was worth the correction!

I've been to TG too back in the day and it's precisely because I have been around the scene as an adult that I am worried about the mission creep from kink and furries down to therians. NOBODY on the Goth scene was encouraging vulnerable 11 year olds to think of themselves as having an inner Goth soul and post pictures or videos of themselves on social media for adult goths to admire. Who knows, if tiktok had existed back then maybe they would have done, because there's creeps in every community, but I think the extreme appeal of this to children and especially to autistic children makes it particularly worrying.

Thank you for getting the nuance - very well put x

It is usually a coping strategy and other children recognise that. A lot of girls on the autistic spectrum are not picked up and are left to navigate school etc as best they can. Playing as a cat is like a costume they put on so they don't have to be themselves.

Quite. I'd love to live as a cat. It doesn't bother me at all if kids want to do it

Exactly this! I don't get why everyone cares so much. My daughter and her friends just like pretending to be cats and making masks etc. It's so harmless.

And there we have it - transphobic comments.

How exactly are other kids affected by ‘expecting to go along with it?’ Therians put on a mask and go out together in little groups and hang out. No one else needs to do anything or say anything. They hang out together and mind their own business. If your child doesn’t want to wear a mask, then they don’t have to. No one is trying to force anyone to do anything; they don’t go round forcing others to don a mask and tail. As has been repeated many times, there is no accommodations. They don’t crawl and purr in the class. They don’t have litter boxes. They don’t expect people to pat them. So there is nothing for any other kids to ‘go along with’. If your child is a Taylor swift fan and gets dressed up as a swiftie and hangs out with her friends and sings her songs and posts on TikTok is that then ‘offensive’ to other kids who think Taylor swift is garbage? No it’s not. People like different things. If you are offended by others personal choices that have nothing to do with you then you are the one with the problem.

honestly I feel like you are the sort of person who in the 50s would have been offended to have to be in the same school or use the same bathroom as a poc 🙄

Other kids are affected by the fact that adults who they look to for guidance, education and wisdom are going along with this nonsense. Kids playing games where they pretend to be animals? Totally fine, obviously. Kids being indulged by schools in a belief that they have an 'animal identity' or belong to a named animal-identity subculture which for some adults involves an element of fetish? Not fine at all.

Your comments were literally about being non binary etc nothing to do with 'therians' so yes you were being transphobic

I hope this doesn't come across as offensive, as it's not intended that way...

As far as I can see, there's a difference between enjoying imaginary play and believing something is your identity/that you really are that thing 'in real life'. My DC and their friends enjoy imaginary play, pretending to be animals/superheroes/characters and making/wearing costumes, but they are clear it's pretend.

Is your child enjoying pretend play and related crafting activities while still knowing that she's a human being, or does she genuinely believe that she is an animal trapped in a human body? If it's the former, why is the 'therian' label being applied? I thought this referred to people identifying as something non-human, which would seem different from imaginary play which is a normal developmental activity enjoyed by many (even as adults). If it's the latter, what's her thought process around this and when did it cross from being imaginary play into something more pervasive?

If she believes herself to be something she cannot possibly be in reality, has this been explored or challenged? Has she had any counselling or other space to discuss her thoughts and feelings about it?

Some of the adults involved with the online communities around this seem quite concerning - eg cross-overs with groups calling for "MAP" to be more accepted, introducing adult and sexual themes to underage people, fetishes linked with elements of the communities... Do these things concern you or anyone else aware of your daughter's involvement with this community? How do you protect her from these risks?

Where was the transphobic comment? People who identify as non binary are not trans?

It is about using the identity as a coping mechanism. They don't believe they are a cat and they are not just playing - it is like putting on a costume which lets you role play your way through life rather than have to be you.

My daughter has a diagnosis of PDA - role play is used in PDA. She was basically the big sister from the Disney show Good Luck Charlie at school. She was completely different at home. It was all explained to me by a psychotherapist.

Sorry op, this happens. A girl in my DD's sixth form identifies as a cat. Wears a tail and hisses.

Disbelief in the concept of non-binary is not transphobic.

Years and years ago if a child in my class said I'm a cat, quite a number did over the years, I would just say oh that's nice and then we would move on. It wasn't a thing. If I had thought about it I would probably just have thought it was role play nothing more.

The big difference between a "therian" and a "swiftie" is that swifties don't "identify" as an imaginary thing or a different species. It's not equivalent.
Expecting me to acknowledge "therian" as an identity is expecting me to go along with it.
Let's not throw at the racist card. Not even close to equivalent and way off the mark. Pathetic.

She definitely doesn't truly believe she's a cat - it's 100% a game that her and all her friends play, and it's not all the time, she does plenty of other activities and plays other imaginary games that don't involve this.

BUT, in her world, the word therian is used for this game and they do say they were animals in past lives and go through shifts when they become their animal. If I challenge it, she does say no mummy I AM a cat now as I have gone through a shift, but this only lasts for the remainder of the game and then is forgotten. I know her friends play it at school and sometimes like dressing up and making masks outside of school, amongst many other other, normal activities.

I guess what I'm trying to say is although they have heard and apply certain language to this, and yes I have had a chat about what identifying as something means, I don't hold too much weight to it. This is the world now and the language they are growing up around. In the vast majority of cases it's just kids exploring and playing and it's completely harmless. I do appreciate there are certain cases where it has gone too far, especially in older kids, what what I'm talking about is the current trend of primary aged children pretending to be animals and calling themselves therians. I agree this has likely trickled down through tiktok and YouTube (although in my daughter's case she has no access to these) but this is just what happens in schools.

I know there is some connotations to fetishism but I am no more concerned than any other risks of abuse on the Internet for example. I don't think someone with a furry fetish or whatever will be any more likely to be a pedophile, any more than any other kind of fetish. She's not allowed on the Internet or social media anyway so I think she's pretty protected.

I appreciate some people may not take the same approach with their kids but I feel strongly that I don't want to shame her at 7 years old for something completely harmless. As I said before, if the phase doesn't pass and she goes to secondary school still playing this game or calling herself a therian, it might be time to have a more serious chat. But for now I have absolutely zero concerns and neither do the parents of her friends.