Why do people lecture me at work?

[Perimenoanti]

I'm just so frustrated today. It's either men or senior/older woman trying to explain to me or make sure I understand the absolute basics of my area of expertise. I have been in this type of role 20 years. Why do people do this?

I have had two men and one women do this since Friday.

I'm seen as an expert in my industry. I get paid very well after negotiating significant salary increases whilst in this role (think 15pc or more each time). I was given extremely valuable shares. I see this as a sign that my performance has been good and they value my work and want to keep me. And these people somehow speak to me as though they are my teachers. They assume I don't know certain things and explain or ask questions that aren't genuine questions. They are 'are you sure about this' questions when I state facts as though they are some kind of coach.

They are my peers of varying levels of experience, but all older than me. None has done my job. They are experts in related fields.

On top of this my boss thinks he understands my job as well or better than I do. He doesn't and comes with suggestions that make me think 'oh my god, this makes no sense, how do I navigate this'. He manages 10 people who are all covering complicated subjects. He's not expected to know each person's job inside out, it's not possible, but i wish he enquired what I think makes sense rather than trying to sell me ideas that dont.

I'm not a pushover. I'm known as quite a straight forward person, so it can't be that.

I just feel really frustrated and worn out today.

That sounds incredibly frustrating OP. Do they do it to others, or is it just you?

The woman does it to others. One guy does it to others but not everyone. He does it to women and anyone who seems younger. One guy doesn't do it as often, but he always thinks he's best at everything so needs to occasionally sow doubt I feel.

My boss I have no clue. I don't think he targets me. I know we are entirely different people and struggle to communicate. But I need to nip many of his ideas in the bud and it brings me down because I feel I'm being negative by saying 'no' all the time.

You come across as confident enough to be able to say "You don't need to tell me this thank you Audrey".

I do speak a bit like this. I worry that I'm being abrasive.

Last week the guy told me something along the lines 'when x happens it doesn't mean y' and I said 'nobody said it does'.

Could you connect with a mentor? Feedback from previous colleagues/manager? I’d it’s happening regularly then perhaps something in your style of delivery or demeanour that’s causing people to lack confidence in your ability. 3 people plus your boss suggests there’s a little more to it than them being ridiculous.

@Investinmyself how do I find a mentor?

Without knowing field difficult to suggest. Some large employers offer it. Are you part of any networking groups or associations - women in x type things. LinkedIn good for making connections. Networking at conferences.

Thanks. I have blind spots for sure, although a colleague told me I come across as very confident and another told me I'm quite blunt towards lecturing guy.

You really should not worry about being blunt with people. Read a few obits in serious papers. I recently read about General Mike Jackson and Sir John Knott.
Both were capable of being short with people.

Keep on being blunt.

A big part of me thinks that too. As a woman I wouldn't be where I am and earn what I do had I not been sharp with people and cut through the BS.

Obviously I am open to self development, but I'm in therapy for my horrible childhood so I feel I'm doing this already and have had many realisations and behavioural changes as a result.

Could you just be sensitive to run of the mill questioning? If someone asked me "are you sure about this" I'd just respond with "yes absolutely" and carry on about my day.

You might be onto something. I appear confident but I don't always am. I'm full of self doubt and it's like they are poking a bear. Often I just ignore them or say ok, but I couldn't today what was pointed out to me was so basic I had enough.

I don't get why people do it though. It's literally basic and i would never point this out to anyone with more than 2 years experience, let alone 20.

I have my theory that they need to feel in control, perhaps are plagued by self doubt too, so doubt others instead as in their minds they can still be 'better'.

I have something similar with some directors in my company, although as they are more senior it's easier to navigate as I just have to let them talk.
It drives me bonkers, I would set up a call to take them through a project update and they take over the first 15 min to explain to me what the project is about... Most of the time they are wrong.

Part of it for me is company culture, they reinforce each others behaviour so it spreads 🙄

I hate to say it but the rules for a woman are still very different than for a man in most business environments. I think you need you probably need to be less blunt and more conciliatory e.g. "I will definitely give that some consideration" in your approach as otherwise I fear you will (quite unfairly) be seen as difficult/not a team player even though a guy in your position would just be considered confident. If you've never had that sort of feedback ignore me - or if you're willing to deal with the consequences for the sake of being able to stay true to your natural communication style - but in my experience this will kick you in the ass at some point so better to start to address it now no matter how unfair it is.

@Bearbookagainandagain agree it's a bit easier coming from superiors, but it's still frustrating if you can almost predict that this is what they'll do.

I fairly sure my boss feels intimidated by my direct manner. He avoids any whiff of a conflict and seems unable to say no to people demanding things from our department. It's another point of frustration of mine, because we end up with all this crap and one day he'll fuck off on holiday without having arranged cover for all the crap he couldn't say no to, some of which then comes my way as a surprise.

I think he avoids me, which then frustrates me even more and I become even more direct. We barely have any contact and if we do he speaks like he's the expert of my job and I shut it down.

@Aimtodobetter yes I have considered that. Being blunt helped me as a younger woman at a lower level, and whilst it still has it's purpose it has occurred to me that people might start to see me as the difficult woman. I have no ambition to progress right now, there is nothing in it for me other than more stress and more tax, but I do want to have good working relationships and I do want people to feel like they can approach me. I find it just hard to manage my frustration. I don't think men get doubted like that.

You’re right - they don’t. And this is definitely something that comes up more as you become more senior. But you can spend your energy being annoyed at the unfairness, or put that energy into trying to manage around it. Only one of those things unfortunately will change anything. Super unfair but as my dad always used to say “life is unfair” - one of the best pieces of advice I was ever given.

@Aimtodobetter how do you normally manage around this?

Sounds incredibly frustrating.

I wonder why he asks you these questions? Is it out of his own interest to learn something or is he wanting confidence that you have everything in hand? He might be trying to express an interest in your work and whilst it is basic to you, it may not be basic knowledge to him.

I would politely respond with a few headline facts and use the words 'I am confident that .....' so that subconsciously that gives both you and him reassurance.

Another approach is if he trys to advise you on doing your job, you can politely say something like 'hmmm, that sounds interesting. I have a different approach XYZ which has proven results'.

A conversation is not always about who is right and who is wrong. It is much more fruitful to try and understand where someone is coming from first.

Honestly - not as well as I would like to but I keep improving. I overdo the niceness, make a lot of effort on building individual relationships / showing personal interest in people so I’m more “likeable”, tone down my vocabulary to sound less certain, be very very careful about which battles I pick, lots of smiling and being super friendly whilst telling the guys how great their ideas are. I wish I was better at it though as I do find it hard and frustrating. The only thing that makes it easier emotionally is that you can feel things are working more smoothly when you do enough of it and out of some of those connections I’ve developed real friendships. I also try and remind myself that as you become more senior a lot more of your role is about how you make other people feel and making them successful - rather than always being right yourself - which for someone like me who is quite IQ driven is hard.

@RoseJam thank you so much. I'm just starting to implement this into my own approach, I mean the idea to try and see where someone might come from.

Im not sure who you refer to, but I guess it's not my boss as I'd wish he asked me questions just to check in with me. He just talks at me and yes, I do shoot from the hip a bit.

This other male colleague asks me questions and I have been trying to manage this for almost ten years. He has gotten worse though and i feel 9 out of 10 questions/comments are not in good faith. I often feel like they are test questions. He does this thing where he goes through my work (why?) and has overwritten my work (incorrectly) on a couple of occasions within the last few months. I'm past the stage of telling myself that it's a communication issue (like it is with my boss) and he doesn't mean it like that. With this guy I'm well and truly done and usually grey rock him unless I actually need to work with him.

@Aimtodobetter thanks you for sharing this. Your post made me really sad though. I guess everyone has to operate like that to a degree at some point, but I do feel women have it much harder. They can't be who they are, but they also can't be like men but need to be something completely else and I don't even know what this is.

Yes agree, it's about how you make people feel. In life generally and at work. It's just sad that we can't show up at work as women, but have to learn and slip into yet another role.

I don't know how much of the BS I can play, but it certainly is a goal of mine to become more understanding of different perspectives and I think it would make people around me more comfortable.

I have this problem too. For me it’s a class issue. I often find if someone says the same words in an RP voice, it’s taken far more seriously. I have a working class accent and I work in a very MC sphere. Despite my years of expertise, it’s as if no one quite believes me or feels they can trust my word. They physically relax more around people who have a nice accent even if they talk bollocks and don’t know anything. It’s actually draining and demoralising.

@Aimtodobetter
I could not lose my integrity to this sort of simpering behaviour.
Don't sell yourself short by fitting the stereotype required by men. Be yourself and find a stock answer..
Channel your inner Carrie Matheson from Homeland or Elizabeth Zott from Lessons in Chemistry. My thoughts are they are threatened by you and want you to know they are knowledgeable.