Not sure teen DS can succeed in his chosen career

[WorldMap24]

DS is in year 11 and we are looking at college / sixth form options right now for next September. Applications need to be in, in January.

DS has decided that he would like to become an Oncologist. This is 'new' in that it hasn't been his life long dream, but he has been fixed on medicine / healthcare for a good few months. Suggestions of working in the NHS but not becoming a doctor (e.g. Dietician / Psychologist / Pharmacist) have been considered, but ultimately he always comes back to wanting to do med school.

My worries......I feel such a rubbish mum for saying this, but number one is that he won't get the grades he would need. I'm told that when applying for doctor roles GCSE's are still looked at, and while my son is bright he is not a straight 9 student. He is currently predicted mostly 6's and 7's, with effort I think he will get 7's in all sciences and maths. Similarly, for A Level, as much as I support him in every way and haven't told him that he can't do it, I think it extremely unlikely he will get all A's.
Number two, we are basing his A-Level choices now on this career path, so Biology, Chemistry and Maths. He enjoys Biology, he is reasonably good at the others but I don't think he looks forward to the lessons. I don't want him to potentially quit A-Levels as he doesn't like the subjects.
Number three, if Chemistry isn't something he looks forward to now how would he ever cope with med school?
Number four, I'm worried he will be squeamish! I think his current choice of end goal (Oncology) is with the thought he wouldn't see lots and lots of blood, or broken bones etc. I did point out to him that he would still have plenty to see during training and he reckons he can cope fine when it isn't his own blood. DS is a fainter and faints whenever he is physically sick. He also faints during injections. Maybe he would be fine if it's not happening to him, but I suffer similar to him with the fainting (GP has been seen and we are told it is genetic) and I also go faint if some things go on around me - for example, I almost fainted when DD got a cannula put in - so I worry he will be the same.

I don't know what to do in this situation. What would you all do? Discourage this altogether and encourage different A-Levels that he would enjoy more? Let this play out and hope that by the time we apply for Uni he has changed his mind? Or just encourage all the way and hope he makes it in his chosen career?

It most definitely is. Of course, high grades are important but the occasional B or even C (especially at GCSE level) isn’t the end of the world. A set of straight As isn’t the guaranteed ticket to medicine that it used to be. UCAT, interviews, work experience, volunteering etc are also valued and weighted.

From recent personal experience - DD’s friends who had ‘perfect’ grades actually got far less offers than the ones who didn’t.

Get him some proper careers advice from a professional careers advisor. Try Morrisby

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice no, you don't understand what the medical training jargon means.

To be a radiologist you have to go to medical school - whether standard or following an accelerated course for graduate.

Then you have to do foundation years 1 and 2.

Then you have to do specialty training for radiology - another 5 years.

Core Medical Training is required for some specialties and takes 2 years between foundation and specialty training - but not radiology. It isn't medical school.

Being a radiographer is entirely different to being a radiologist and the training is different - and doesn't involve being a doctor.

Don’t write him off. Let him test out his theory that medicine is for him. There’s lots of on line resources about getting into med school.

And gain voluntary work / work exp for the summer.

Then after his GCSE grades he can reassess.

the back up option is important. He must be happy with that. I’ve had students opt for pharmacy or paramedic science or biomed. And they’re happy with going into those options. I’ve also had a student who preserved with grade 5s at GCSE. After a longer route she is finally at med school. She demonstrated commitment, resilience and perseverance as well as completing a gap year with care work.

If your ds is at state school then look into widening participation schemes.

Most of this is inaccurate. It always depends on the uni and they ALL use different selection criteria from each other so no definite rules -

Straight As? - not always, look at widening participation schemes
Taken at one sitting? - not always. Some unis accept re-sits
Proven dedication and high achievement in sport? - nonsense. No med school asks for this, or Grade 8 Viola or Duke of Edinburgh Gold or extensive experience shadowing a heart surgeon holding her scalpel etc.

There's a lot of scaremongering about how difficult it is to get into medicine (on this thread included) which can put off a lot of potential candidates who could be brilliant future doctors if only they hadn't been told they weren't good enough.

He needs to research the grades needed and perhaps he might see for himself that he's not likely to make it OR maybe he will really up his effort and achieve beyond expectations.
Are there any summer schools or similar for people looking to go into medicine which he could attend? I went to one at Nottingham years and years ago. It was really interesting and gave a real feel for what studying medicine would be like. They didn't mince their words either about the academic requirements but also about what exactly it would be like to work as a doctor and how hard it can be.
Perhaps he should do something like that so he can get more of an idea of what's involved.
Or can he do work experience somewhere?

Also look at other alternatives with him and get him to research them: radiography, physiotherapy, speech or occupational therapy, biomedical science, nursing, paramedic.

My approach has always been to hold my tongue on reality checks for my DC. So my DS has worked out for himself that he isn’t going to be a Premiership footballer, and it seems eventually to have dawned on DD that she isn’t going to be talent-spotted for Hollywood at her Saturday drama class.

I think in a GCSE year all you can really say is: how wonderful to have ambitious goals, and let’s focus on how to support you in doing the very best you can next summer, pick subjects you are going to enjoy and thrive in at A Level and then go from there. Once exams are over next summer he can look into work experience, virtual or in-person, to help inform and shape his goals.

In the meantime you might also want to have a look at the excellent Medical School Entry threads on the Higher Education board here (a fresh thread each academic year). They are live and current and always very well-informed. You will get a realistic view as to what it takes to get an offer there.

@Haffdonga when I posted I did mean via undergrad route.

I do know some people who didn't get into medical school, did biomedical sciences, then applied for med school before graduating in their late 20s. These tended to be people whose families, for whatever reason, had their hearts set on having a doctor in the family and would do anything to make it happen.

If OP is able and willing to keep funding her child through University for the best part of a decade, at which point he will still be several years of study and exams away from becoming an oncologist, and OP's son is enthusiastic about still being effectively a trainee in his chosen profession in his 30s when all of his friends are settled in their careers, then that might well work out for him.

He will need extra-curriculars and volunteering as well as the grades. Get him to join the youth section of St John’s Ambulance if that exists in your area. Over time, that should clarify whether he will be too squeamish or not. Also see if he can get in as a Hospice volunteer if he is old enough.

I think all you can do is be supportive - reality will set in. I think it part of the journey. Perhaps when reality sets in he can consider other carers such pharmacy, nursing, radiology, occupational health etc

Haven’t read all other posts but I teach clinical skills at a uk medical school and wanted to comment re. Phobias. Don’t let fear of blood/needles put him off. We get lots of it, it’s very treatable!

Another vote for overseas courses. There are some on the continent that are taught in English, at very decent universities. Tuition fees are comparable to the UK.

I know several doctors (good ones at that) who were far from straight A students but managed their training just fine. If there's a will, there's a way.

That said, it takes more determination and effort to make it through a medicine course than to get accepted onto one.

Maybe not yet - there are routes l to some specialisms (I believe anaethesiology if I understood right?)

We're definitely going down that route. I'm not saying it as a positive thing, just a fact sadly.

@Commonsense22 not in the UK - where it's always Anaesthetics not Anaethesiology.

There are Anaesthetic Associates like Physician Associates but they are engulfed in the same shitshow about not being regulated, case law suggesting that 'supervision by a doctor' basically meaning so much supervision they are pointless and so on.

Yep, the route into anaesthetics for a physician associate is to apply to medical school, do medical school, do foundation training, do core anaesthetics training, apply for competitive higher specialty training, and sit a series of notoriously difficult exams 👍🏼

No in all seriousness they keep floating this idea of creating routes into becoming a doctor for PAs, in practice there’s very little support for it and I highly doubt it will come to anything. I certainly wouldn’t be making any decisions to enter a particular profession based on it.

Currently paused as a route

www.rcoa.ac.uk/training-careers/working-anaesthesia/anaesthesia-associates/becoming-anaesthesia-associate

My friend's daughter had 3A* in her A levels and didn't even get an interview. She ended up doing biochemistry, and has recently done a doctorate.

If you don't have a family connection who can do a statement you really don't have a chance

That's vastly untrue. You're suggesting only people who can get family help with their personal statements get into medical school?!
I think I'd be absolutely FA use writing someone's personal statement as it was so long ago!

This is totally untrue. One of my close relatives was the first medical student in the family. He had absolutely no help with his statement or tutoring for his interview. He was accepted into a top university where only 1 in 8 applicants (all with the required qualifications) were offered a place.

And for what it's worth, medical students are generally more privileged than your average but it's still very much a mixed bag. You've got your kids who attended posh boarding school and international school in with those who were the first from their family to attend university and those who got in on widening participation schemes. Generally I've found people gel together and this becomes less and less evident over time.

Anecdotally:
I had an ex boyfriend who I tried helping get into graduate medicine, and when he failed he was very angry and blamed the fact he was state schooled and from a Lancashire ex mining town. However what he actually lacked was introspection. He had jumped all the hoops and ticked all the boxes and was a bright man but he couldn't say why he had done any of it or what difference it made to him as a person. He had no sense of his own limitations or flaws, and would get entrenched in his own opinion and wasn't able to see another side. The ability to honestly reflect is key to a career in medicine and this is where he fell down, as he had the ability to be dangerous and not realise it, not because of where he came from.

Lots of applicants with the perfect academics fail to get in because they are cocky as, and it is not a desirable trait in a future doctor.

I think you quoted the wrong post as we are in agreement.
Yes I was the first in my family to go to university, wrote my own personal statement, and got two medical school offers.

I don’t think that is true.

It helps to have interests, proof of being a well rounded person and definitely evidence of having done work experience in a medical environment.

Apologies,I was answering a post on the thread by gettingstuffed & didn't realise it would be yours highlighted. I haven't been here long so still working it out.

More misinformation.

Most med schools do not use the PS in their selection process and openly state this if you read their selection criteria. The PS will not even exist when OP's ds goes to uni.

It will exist in some format. Applicants will write a paragraph answering 4 questions.