Not sure teen DS can succeed in his chosen career

[WorldMap24]

DS is in year 11 and we are looking at college / sixth form options right now for next September. Applications need to be in, in January.

DS has decided that he would like to become an Oncologist. This is 'new' in that it hasn't been his life long dream, but he has been fixed on medicine / healthcare for a good few months. Suggestions of working in the NHS but not becoming a doctor (e.g. Dietician / Psychologist / Pharmacist) have been considered, but ultimately he always comes back to wanting to do med school.

My worries......I feel such a rubbish mum for saying this, but number one is that he won't get the grades he would need. I'm told that when applying for doctor roles GCSE's are still looked at, and while my son is bright he is not a straight 9 student. He is currently predicted mostly 6's and 7's, with effort I think he will get 7's in all sciences and maths. Similarly, for A Level, as much as I support him in every way and haven't told him that he can't do it, I think it extremely unlikely he will get all A's.
Number two, we are basing his A-Level choices now on this career path, so Biology, Chemistry and Maths. He enjoys Biology, he is reasonably good at the others but I don't think he looks forward to the lessons. I don't want him to potentially quit A-Levels as he doesn't like the subjects.
Number three, if Chemistry isn't something he looks forward to now how would he ever cope with med school?
Number four, I'm worried he will be squeamish! I think his current choice of end goal (Oncology) is with the thought he wouldn't see lots and lots of blood, or broken bones etc. I did point out to him that he would still have plenty to see during training and he reckons he can cope fine when it isn't his own blood. DS is a fainter and faints whenever he is physically sick. He also faints during injections. Maybe he would be fine if it's not happening to him, but I suffer similar to him with the fainting (GP has been seen and we are told it is genetic) and I also go faint if some things go on around me - for example, I almost fainted when DD got a cannula put in - so I worry he will be the same.

I don't know what to do in this situation. What would you all do? Discourage this altogether and encourage different A-Levels that he would enjoy more? Let this play out and hope that by the time we apply for Uni he has changed his mind? Or just encourage all the way and hope he makes it in his chosen career?

15 is still very much a teen/child. I would put all your efforts and focus into helping him do as well as he possibly can in his GCSEs, and save any doubts or conversations for after he has his results. If he is solid and motivated he might well do better than you think. If he doesn't he will be doing a lot of thinking for himself and your role really should mainly be support, just support. Please don't talk to him about doubts now. There is no need. He will mature a lot between now and finishing GCSEs.

If you talk to him now about doubts or even if he senses you have doubts it could mean he becomes demotivated and/or stressed which will negatively affect his academics, meaning it could become a self fulfilling prophecy. I would focus just on doing what you can to help him aim for top marks at GCSEs

Medicine is not an option if he's not straight As all the way through

is simply incorrect.

https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/career-planning/study-and-training/graduate-training-opportunities/nhs-scientist-training-programme

Could be possible pathway after a degree. Biomedical scientist degree would be worth looking at

Yes my DS wants to be a paleontoligist. Even though I suspect it's 1 difficult to get into and 2 not as interesting as he thinks he's good at stem so I thought if that ambition gets him working hard at GCSE and A Level then it doesn't matter if he changes his mind. He has good A Levels. Although DS is good at science and enjoys it, so it may he different if he struggles.

7s are As so I think his chances are rather better than you think OP.
7=A
8=A star
9=A star star

They only went to this scale because they wanted an A star star grade.

On oncology and blood, that would be an issue if he want to be a surgeon in oncology, but what about a radiologist in oncology? You know the person who can spot cancer in X-rays (ie mammograms), ultrasounds and MRIs? No blood there except for the odd biopsy and even that is avoidable if you are going to specialise in mammograms and MRIs.

If he did A level biology, physics and maths he could go for oncology radiology.
Adding that physics A level and maths A level have a lot of overlap so good to take together.

Even if doesn’t get grades for med school, there are specialist nursing courses, lab based and technician degrees he could go for and still work in the field, make good money and be in oncology without being a medical doctor.

@BeatriceAndLottie medicine in the UK is not an option as an undergrad if he's not straight A's.

OP have a look at overseas options (st George's is one), you do not need AAA to be a good doctor. It's just the UK doesn't have enough places, so use grades to select candidates. He could also plan for graduate entry to the 4 or 5yr program.

I've been known to pass out because someone was inserting a cannula into my hand.....doing it to someone else not a problem.

Could you steer him towards healthcare technology? Eg. Data science/AI will be a big field in cancer detection without the blood and guts side of things to contend with. Or robotics etc for tele-surgery? Or rehabilitation/physiotherapy roles?

There are different pathways too. Friends dc didn't have right A levels so went and did a science degree then went and applied to do medicine and is now a Dr. Another friend did a PhD first in a science field and then did graduate medicine.

There are alternative routes into medicine, in Ireland for example you can do medicine as a postgrad if you have a science undergrad. This might be an option if he has his heart set on medicine but at the moment is not up to the mark academically. It’s not cheap but if it’s something he’s his heart set on might be worth it to him: https://www.ul.ie/gps/course/medicine-graduate-entry

DS must be aware of his challenges. When he gets his predicted grades, he will have an indication of what Uni & course he can potentially get offers.
That’s when you can help support him into other bio med type courses.

For now, help him keep positive and help where you can.

My niece was offered a medical degree from her nursing degree, there are other ways apart from the straight one.

Just to reply quickly to your concerns

1. Not high enough grades? Not all med schools look at GCSE grades. Not all entries to med school require all A grades (but most do want those predictions ). Look at his eligibility for widening participation schemes and foundation courses which may lower requirements.
2. He doesn't enjoy A level chemistry? Chemistry A level is not a requirement for all med schools. Too late to change?
3. Not good enough at chemistry for med school study? The content of med courses is not advanced chemistry at all. Med school is more like learning 1000 GCSEs all at once rather than very advanced concepts. (Like maths, you need to be safe doing basic calculations but you'll not likely ever to use advanced calculus as a doctor)
4. He might be squeamish. That's your worry not his. Many students are to start with and it's not unusual for some to faint at the start. By the time he's seen and given 100s of injections he'll be fine.

So medicine is a possibility for him (although it might be a tough journey). Let him research what he needs to get and decide if it's realistic for himself. If he's totally committed then let him go for it and make sure he chooses a different realistic alternative for his 5th choice on his UCAS form so he has a good back up.

My nephew got B's and C's at GCSE, went on to get As and Bs at A level and is now a consultant paediatrician. It took him a little bit longer than the state-mandated age to wake up and realise his ambition.

I don't know whether your son will do the same OP but I wouldn't discourage him from working hard.

Now is not the time to doomsday his ambitions.

Concentrate on GCSE’s. Pay for revision residential in the holidays (book now). Once you have his GCSE grades decide then.

Some medical schools do not require Chemistry A level. They are happy to take Biology instead. Some are happy with 7’s at GCSE too.

Forget about it for now just help him get him the best results he can for his GCSE’s. It may cost a couple of grand but revision residential courses are imo an excellent resource.

Good luck to your son.

I would say support him but try and help him research the requirements and how to give himself the best chance of getting in (even if his grades currently make it unlikely).

I did medicine as a graduate and highly recommend it. I did an arts degree first but obviously a biomedical one would make more sense and give him more options other than medicine.

I also had a needle phobia and health anxiety which I needed to work through during medical school. It wasn’t ideal but I managed.

I would say an oncologist is very specific and it’s unlikely he has an appreciation of what the job actually involves so I wonder why he’s latched onto it. He’ll also spend a lot of years as a student, foundation and core trainee doctor with limited exposure to oncology.

As a radiologist, he absolutely would be performing biopsies if he specialises in breast.

It doesn’t seem from his predicted grades that medicine is right for him at the moment. However you need to have a conversation with him about this and show him the required grades for medicine at GCSE and Alevel.

One of mine is currently studying medicine and I really didn’t think he would get the grades although he had high predictions I wasn’t hopeful. He also didn’t do any volunteering or work experience ( boarder and school on Saturdays, plus think he left the decision late ). He did however take the medical school entrance tests with absolute determination in his studying (the summer before ) and no private tuition even in school…he did well. He was offered places and succeeded.

He was just so determined in his goal that he surpassed our expectations.
I just want to say, whilst I agree with you he may struggle, he could just prove he can do it.

So as long as you have made him aware of the requirements just support him.

My oldest daughter is in Year 10. She's autistic and has learning difficulties, having to attend a specialist school. She won't get GCSEs in Year 11 - she's sitting BTECs, ASDAN, Functional Skills in core subjects. She will then do GCSEs at post-16.

She has bundles of energy, enthusiasm, and determination. She's fixated on working in the aviation industry. She would love to be an Air Traffic Controller. She simply isn't bright enough. She will not meet any of the aptitude tests for this. My role as her mum is keeping her expectations in check so she can direct her energies in the right place. She's shortly going to be doing work experience at the airport, and she's researched different roles. She's keeping her options open and has accepted ATC roles aren't going to be suitable for someone who isn't academic and who has poor working memory, processing, and focus. Those are difficult discussions I've had to have with her in a sensitive way: I told her she needed to have different options as sometimes things change or don't work out. I went through what is needed for ATC and where she is with that. This doesn't mean I'm a bad mum - this is my job in setting her up for her future.

I perfectly well understand the complexities that come with brighter children. My younger daughter is gifted and talented. She's completely different. Her motivation is lower because things come so much easier to her. Telling her she may not be able to do something isn't as easy, because she can do most things she sets her mind to. If you've never struggled, you can't conceive that you ever would struggle.

I'm going to put this down with the absolutely HUGE caveat that this experience was 20 years ago - but it might be worth exploring?

I was at uni with a guy who already had a degree under his belt - he hadn't got the grades for medicine, but he did for Pharmacology; so he did that, and then he was accepted onto the Medicine programme.

Like I say, this is 20 years out of date info, but pathways into medicine might be worth exploring.

He's 16 and regardless of whether he goes into medicine or not those are strong subject choices. But those are all your fears, not his. You can't live his life or make his decisions for him, let him try and see where it takes him. He sounds bright and ambitious. He'll figure it out himself.

You are right that he doesn't have a realistic hope of getting into med school. My school specialised in making doctors and I saw plenty of my peers with straight A*s at GCSE go on to get 4 As at A level along with hours of extracurricular activities and voluntary work, Grade 8s in musical instruments and Gold D of E awards STILL be turned down by their top choices and come away with 1 offer. It's VERY competitive, although I can't for the life of me work out why, as it's not exactly a fun or easy job.

Telling him that though cannot go well. Hopefully, once he gets to A Level and starts applying, a teacher will break it to him gently that he is not going to get in and encourage him to be more realistic, look at biomedical sciences or a medical-type specialism, like optometry, audiology or pharmacology.

My SD15 says she wants to be an architect. Like your son, she's a hardworking, solid student predicted decent grades in her GCSEs. She's not taking art, or DT, and has dysgraphia which means she has never been much good at drawing or fine motor skills. She also has ADHD and would be the first to admit that her approach to tasks is slapdash and precision is not her thing. She's as likely to become an architect as I am to become the Queen of England, but I don't tell her that, I just praise her on her great progress at school, buy her books of amazing houses around the world and let her dream- the reality will soon hit her.

Let's face it, most of us are not going to be doctors OR architects, we're going to be HR Data Analysts, Payroll Administrators and Compliance Officers and hope it pays well enough to give us a good 2 week holiday, a solid home and a decent pension. They don't need to know that at 15.

If he doesn’t get in straight after A levels there are options to get to the final goal of being a doctor

If finances are not an objection:

1. study abroad (lower requirements)
2. Post grad entry

I was a straight A student. I didn’t want to be a doctor until I was in my final year of A levels. The fees were going up the year after so I didn’t want a gap year. I therefore took my next favourite subject (maths) and now work in tech.

However, not doing medicine is a big regret of mine and if I could I would do it. I know two people I went to school with who were struggling to get B’s in A level Biology and chemistry and both went abroad to study medicine. Both now working as doctors for the nhs.

There will be options for him. Please encourage him 😁

I teach undergraduate medical students at a high ranking uni. Academic ability is obviously important but this doesn't necessarily mean straight As. This is particularly true for those who are mature students doing medicine as a first degree or those who have a strong first degree but who may not have had top A level results. There are many qualities necessary to be a successful doctor, academic ability is just one. Students who are committed to their studies, and who persevere even when things get tough often out-perform those who may be naturally more academically able. Medicine is a marathon not a sprint.

Anecdotally, a friend I was at school with got all Bs at school, started a science undergraduate degree but quit after a year to do medicine (obviously had to reapply). Fast forward 25 years and they are now a consultant is a specialist surgical area.

I think that you need to support him whilst encouraging him to be aware of other options. Medical oncologist seems oddly specific. What is it about this particular career that attracts him? If it is curing cancer or supporting people with cancer, then there are other career paths which would also fit. Research scientist for example.

They are a good choice of A-levels for a lot of careers, so if he works hard but doesn’t quite make the grades he will still have lots of options available.
I remember A-level chemistry as being awful - but it is a necessary evil!

Who's actually squeamish? At the end of the day you have to encourage him and let him make mistakes, you can't decide for him .
One of my daughters did this exact thing and she is now full time employed in a different area but she loves her job