Not sure teen DS can succeed in his chosen career

[WorldMap24]

DS is in year 11 and we are looking at college / sixth form options right now for next September. Applications need to be in, in January.

DS has decided that he would like to become an Oncologist. This is 'new' in that it hasn't been his life long dream, but he has been fixed on medicine / healthcare for a good few months. Suggestions of working in the NHS but not becoming a doctor (e.g. Dietician / Psychologist / Pharmacist) have been considered, but ultimately he always comes back to wanting to do med school.

My worries......I feel such a rubbish mum for saying this, but number one is that he won't get the grades he would need. I'm told that when applying for doctor roles GCSE's are still looked at, and while my son is bright he is not a straight 9 student. He is currently predicted mostly 6's and 7's, with effort I think he will get 7's in all sciences and maths. Similarly, for A Level, as much as I support him in every way and haven't told him that he can't do it, I think it extremely unlikely he will get all A's.
Number two, we are basing his A-Level choices now on this career path, so Biology, Chemistry and Maths. He enjoys Biology, he is reasonably good at the others but I don't think he looks forward to the lessons. I don't want him to potentially quit A-Levels as he doesn't like the subjects.
Number three, if Chemistry isn't something he looks forward to now how would he ever cope with med school?
Number four, I'm worried he will be squeamish! I think his current choice of end goal (Oncology) is with the thought he wouldn't see lots and lots of blood, or broken bones etc. I did point out to him that he would still have plenty to see during training and he reckons he can cope fine when it isn't his own blood. DS is a fainter and faints whenever he is physically sick. He also faints during injections. Maybe he would be fine if it's not happening to him, but I suffer similar to him with the fainting (GP has been seen and we are told it is genetic) and I also go faint if some things go on around me - for example, I almost fainted when DD got a cannula put in - so I worry he will be the same.

I don't know what to do in this situation. What would you all do? Discourage this altogether and encourage different A-Levels that he would enjoy more? Let this play out and hope that by the time we apply for Uni he has changed his mind? Or just encourage all the way and hope he makes it in his chosen career?

I wouldn't worry about it yet. He ideally should aim to do A-levels in subjects he's best at and enjoys the most, but the ones he's chosen will still be a good base for a lot of options in future- which he will likely moderate when he realises how much he'd have to work for straight A's.

I think I would be honest and tell him that he needs higher GCSE grades if he wants his career choice and you want to support him in getting that. Don't rely on all the teaching coming just from school. YouTube has teachers going over stuff, FreeScienceLessons YouTube channel has a brilliant teacher, and was recommended for both my sons who did ace out their GCSEs with twice as many 9s as 8s. They are state educated but with a great work ethic. He has time to push up his grades as it is only November.

See also Primrose Kitten for paper walkthroughs. When he sits his November mocks he needs to look specifically at each paper to see why he didn't get full marks for each question. You start every paper with zero marks and gain them with your answers. They should go over them in school so he will write in the full mark response. He then a few months later goes back and looks to see if he can remember the full answer. Same for past papers online, have the paper and the mark scheme open. Help him learn what gets full marks especially specific words they are looking for.

Mine also did a free app that tests you for your answer for science but I cannot remember the name and I think we paid for Primrose Kitten's version of it too. Dc1 was very average but decided he wanted to smash his grades. This isn't about hours of extra work, just working smart and accessing all resources. The main one is learn what gets points, the more points the higher the grade. Best of luck to him.

My friend's DD got rejected from all medical schools so she is doing BioMed instead and loving it. There are many routes into medicine sometimes the start isn't medicine though.

Yes I agree, at least biopsies are less bloody than surgery though.

My DD was set on becoming a Dr and was accepted at medical school. She absolutely loved it and did very well in her first year exams. However, she did lots of research into what life is like for a junior doctor in the NHS and had a serious wobble, she decided that she wasn't prepared to sell her soul for her career and had the foresight to change to a law degree (She'd studied law at A level along with bio & chem).
She is about to do her final year and is a completely different person, she misses sciences somewhat and the learning of medicine but has never regretted her decision.
It might be an idea to encourage your son to do another subject instead of maths at A level. My DD is so glad she chose law as this gave her a fall back.
Apparently many med students just keep on going at uni and then realise they don't want to become doctors. I'm so glad my DD realised after only one year.

I really don't think the squeamish thing is a massive issue, however if he does medicine there is absolutely no getting around blood, guts, phlegm, shit, vomit etc for many years.
You will HAVE to do surgical placements in medical school and foundation years.

I’d be encouraging him down the biology/ biotechnology/ route

I recruit in the pharmaceutical industry and there are loads of interesting r&d jobs in oncology. Not nearly as competitive (or stressful) as medicine and well paid!

Sounds like it won’t be an option down to grades, Mayb a nurse working in oncology might be a more realistic option.

Right but a placement is not many years.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/how-to-become-radiologist

With the way the NHS is going I would suggest a nursing degree or Biology followed by paid Physician's Associate training followed by sitting the extra bits to qualify as a GP. The NHS is so desperate everything is now possible.

It is a massive leap from GCSE Biology and Chemistry to A level. He may not be able to cope with this

Can you talk to the head of science to get their viewpoint

I started out as a pharmacy student and at that time having good A-levels, but not necessarily 3 As, was required. However my cousin has graduated in the last few years and she needed 3As and an interview and extra curriculars and what-not to get in - it is definitely harder than it used to be!

Well, I have looked at the medicine requirements at some traditionally easier to get-into uni's (e.g. Anglia Ruskin) and they are asking for 5 GCSEs at grades 9 to 6. So he will likely make that.

However, I was surprised to see that even at the traditionally not-so-hard to get into uni's, the A - level requirements are still AAA.

I'd let him go for it. See what he can do at GCSE. He's still young. If he does well at GCSE and manages some 7s (which are As after all!) he might be inspired to keep getting As for A level!

If he doesn't get the A-levels he needs, there are other options for pursuing medicine, like doing the post grad medicine course after his first degree. If he's really keen he might be willing to wait that long! or by then, he may have found a similar alternative career path he likes the sound of (such as cancer research, microbiology etc..)

Don't squash his dream! It's something he wants so let him try

I am a GP - you can’t become a physician associate and do “extra bits” to become a GP. A GP is a doctor - despite the fact everyone thinks we are just some sort of holding mechanism until you see the “real docs” at the hospital. The only route to being a GP is medical school, foundation training and GP training

Becoming an oncologist doesn’t just require getting through med school. It also mandates difficult post graduate exams including the MRCP diploma. That sucker took me multiple attempts to complete. You only get to specialise in oncology after that. It’s a long massive slog.

Has he been round open evenings yet for sixth forms? My son is the same age and we generally found that tutors talked to him about what grades he was expecting to get, and what he wanted to do after sixth form and were helpful in advising on whether the subject choices were sensible from both points of view. Also talking to the careers people there. If he hasn’t been round yet, or has a chance to go back to another one, it may be worth encouraging him to talk to them about his ambitions and let the, advise him as he may listen more to others, or they may have alternative suggestions

One option if his grades aren't good enough for medical school would be to study something else, and then try grad medical school. There are various options with a four year course (rather than usual 5-6). They would be much less fussed on A levels and more interested in a good related science degree.

There’s a huge difference between the minimum requirement to apply and what will actually get you as far as an interview. Each med school has their own criteria but essentially they are all ranking thousands of applicants on GCSEs/predicted Alevels/UCAT score and only interviewing the top 1000 or so for 300 ish places.

How about bio-medical science then he could work in the field of oncology?

When I was at school there were several of us who wanted to be doctors. The group slowly decreased in size as reality kicked in and people realised they wouldn't get the grades. Most of these did Medical Science at Uni and were happy.

Even if he does go to medical school, he might well find Oncology isn't what he thought it would be.
I've worked with a few doctors who came through the graduate route, having previously done Science PhDs and wanted more patient contact than being in a lab. All of them ended up being disappointed that medicine wasn't more 'sciencey' and realised that individual consultants generally are following guidelines and not going to change the face of medicine.

Most doctors don’t choose a specialty until after med school. He couldn’t really have any idea about what the job and life of an oncologist is like at this stage.

Medicine is a hard slog and you need to have a passion for it and really know it’s what you want to do. It never really ends - after medical school, foundation + specialty training can take 10 years and there is constant studying, exams and writing papers throughout that. Once a consultant there’s conferences, book chapters, research papers as well as the long hours and stress of the day job.

It sounds like he’s just heard of oncology and likes the idea of it rather than being passionate about the subject and learning about it. I’d try to see if he can arrange a shadowing opportunity in a local hospital and for him talk to some medics. He might change his mind when he has more insight into the reality of it.

I don’t think his squeamishness is an issue. I’m a nurse so deal with bodily fluids and it’s something that you get used to.

One of my DDs was a straight A student at GCSE but always struggled with chemistry, she dithered over her A level choices as she wanted to be a vet. Her school tried to talk her out of it and wrote a rather luke warm reference for UCAS. She got the A at A level chemistry after tutoring. She didn’t get any VetMed offers first time round but got offers for all 4 choices the second time around and took a gap year.

Fast forward she graduated Uni with a first and didn’t struggle with chemistry or other academic work and has successfully been in practice over 3 years.

Let your son follow his dreams. He may surprise you and do better than you think. It is a good idea to have a plan B though in case he simply isn’t academic enough.

While saying that, I don’t think you need to be brilliantly clever, more a combination of personality traits.

Completely different course, but DS was set on what he wanted to do and we started looking at entrance requirements quite early on with him - and he set his sights at an appropriate level. Whilst he did well on Physics (9) and Maths (8) at GCSE he found A level very different and ended up dropping physics so that he had more time to concentrate on the maths - which was an uphill struggle for him. But because he had set his sights at a realistic level and applied to places accordingly, he got a place and is very happy there. So I might be starting to look at expectations with him.

The problem with shadowing is that as a teen, everything you see a junior doctor do looks massively exciting. And most hospitals don't offer traditional shadowing anymore.

When they used to, you would get some 6th formers follow you for a week. And they would watch you do the most mindnumbing part of the job and of course they hadn't seen anyone take blood or put in a cannula before and thought it was brilliant. After my 1000th time I was less thrilled.

What is much better preparation for med school is contact with the general public such as bar work, McDonalds, retail or work in a care home.

Presumably he doesn't need to make the final choice about his A Level subjects until he has his GCSE results?

If he has done best and better than expected at Maths and Sciences then great, go with those subjects. If they're worse results than expected or the least strong out of his subjects maybe encourage him to rethink. And tbh in that scenario I imagine his teachers would be deterring him from Science and Maths A Levels? I think some schools don't even allow you to take Chemistry A Level unless you have top GCSE marks because they know pupils will fail.