STEM v social science degrees

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Flowing from the previous thread on a tren picking politics for their degree - I was curious to hear whether people really would mainly try and get their kids to do a STEM degree and whether docial science subjects like politics are seen as soft or less clever?

DH and I are both politics profs, me from a family which was mainly into STEM and I wanted to be a bit different though was equally good at both. However, twenty years ago doing a politics from a top uni was seen as pretty competitive.

DC is bright and has just started secondary and it did make me think - should I steer him towards STEM because it's the right thing to do? I think he's pretty rounded and could certainly succeed in both. Any thoughts?

You can probably find out from universities what jobs their graduates go into.

You can't go wrong with a STEM subject though as far as employability is concerned.

DC1 just completed a 4-year masters course in a STEM subject at a top tier uni. They applied for 3 jobs, got interviewed for 2 of them and was offered 1 of them .

Interesting to hear that straight politics isn't seen as well as Politics plus something else. I would never push a humanities kid into STEM. However, am also not British and grew up assuming that maths is much easier than say literature. Even at A'level maths essentially has pretty simple answers, with literature you actually have to think and form you own judgements. I appreciate that math as an academic discipline is as creative and complex as anything am not that naive.

Depends what you mean by 'easier'.

There are many kids who simply cannot do A level maths, let alone FM; I'd guess most with a reasonable degree of literacy could make some sort of stab at an English lit question but only the best would be able to do it well.

Of course they can go wrong with STEM if it doesn't suit them.

I'm not sure that maths having one correct answer makes it 'easy'. I've generally found numeracy levels in the general adult population here to be pretty terrible.

Surely it's much easier to make a stab at a maths problem - I mean you get given all the rules at least at A'level than writing a decent answer as to why Nazi Germany invaded USSR?

Have you ever done U.K. maths A levels?
There are plenty of people who can't do even quite simple maths.

Of course but the OP seemed to think that her DC was good at STEM.

A level maths is extremely challenging.

i did science a’levels and have a science degree from one of the best uni’s.

jobs pay shit. I left science first for the nhs because it paid better, now I am in a field which does not require a degree and is not science related, and yes, it pays better.

if you want a high paying field science is not it.

Yes, I did Maths at A'levels. I found it much easier than my social science A'level. I have no idea why Brits seem to think that maths is hard in comparison to other subjects. However, I ended up pursuing politics because I found social problems much more intriguing than science ones.

Depends on general interest and knowledge though. In your example I’d definitely get more marks on history question - can recall facts from gcse and A level history plus general knowledge v I can recall zero gcse maths other than my absolute hatred of it. I could definitely have had a good stab at dc’s history/politics/RS recently she was surprised how much I knew when looking through her text books. You’ll also pick up points for structure of arguments.

DD (19) is doing an engineering degree and our main advice has been: firstly, play to your strengths and secondly, where do you see yourself in five years, even ten years?

DD is strong in Maths and Physics as well as English, so she could have gone in various directions. But, she sees engineering as a good base degree that will give her several career options. She’d like to do an MBA after she’s got some work experience.

Earning potential is another factor for her.
DD is self aware enough to know that she has champagne tastes! If she wants a high standard of living, she needs to earn well. 😂

He should do what he loves without too much steering from anyone. I did social science (I’m a sociologist) and I work in a STEM field as a social scientist in clinical research. If he wants to be an academic, yes, realistically there is probably more money and job security in STEM.

But that’s if he loves it and is willing to make the sacrifices for an academic career. 20 years in, me personally, I’m taking my PhD and walking because I’m tired of the drama of academia. I loved what I did for those 20 years though because it was my passion and I enjoyed it.

Let him figure out what he loves. I can’t recommend a gap year to decompress and travel enough too. There’s so much pressure on teenagers to decide everything at like 16. I had no idea what I wanted to do in secondary school. I actually had no idea in uni either! It took a year travelling and working abroad after uni for me to finally figure it out. Thankfully, I studied something I enjoyed and it was enough of a springboard with work and volunteer experience to get me where I wanted to go.

How can you get a U in maths and thrive in economics/investment banking? Asking out of curiosity. It reflects, no doubt, my poor understanding of these subjects but even with my very basic level of knowledge, surely having a pass at maths a-level would be a help ?

Of course but the OP seemed to think that her DC was good at STEM.

Yes, but even then...if that doesn't go along with some genuine interest and desire to work in a stem field, they're unlikely to thrive at uni and may not end up very employable. My dd like yours has done a ' 4-year masters course in a STEM subject at a top tier uni.' ... she got a job offer on the back of a summer internship without needing to do any applications or interviews but that wasn't just about being good at stem, it was about attitude and - let's use the word - passion for the field.

At least a couple of her friends were good at stem, started stem degrees ... found it wasn't really for them, switched courses and seem to have wound up employable. Sticking to the stem subject might well have served them less well.

There's no one simple answer to this question.

@mindutopia to be fair the one thing that I won't encourage is academia. It's a totally destroyed sector and I wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy.

Totally agree on engineering - I think it's a great discipline.

Agree. I’ve found it very difficult to find jobs in my scientific sector. I could do a PhD to increase what’s available to me, but even then the pay wouldn’t be good and the jobs lack stability.

If I could do it all again I’d probably do engineering.

STEM might improve employability but at what cost? A lot of engineering jobs are crap, saying that as an engineer, starting salaries are not that great and reading specs, drawing things in CAD, doing 8D’s, 5y’s FMEA’s all day can be a grind, even if you are STEM minded.

I think STEM is more useful for careers - I did politics and no one in my family has a STEM degree, I am doing one with OU now. DS is an all rounder and is looking at 2x STEM and 1 x arts for A level. I steered him to this because he didn’t know what to do. This way he keeps more options open. Whichever way he goes for uni I’ll support him. Last think you want is them doing something they don’t like.

There's no one simple answer to this question.

@ErrolTheDragon Totally agree, there’s no point doing a STEM subject if you have no real interest in the field. My DD enjoys the hands-on aspects of engineering, (designing and constructing things) so it makes sense for her.

I've always imagined that it's a job that provides a feeling of community and also feels meaningful?

My eldest 2 chose degrees that matched their interests and career paths- both humanities. Dd1 is in her final year of politics and IR and has always been interested in politics and working for CS/NGOs or similar, DD2 is studying sociology and criminology and wants to work in youth justice or social work- I’d never steer them in any direction as they are adults

If you teach Politics at a prestigious university, don't you have any insight into this? Surely you would appreciate why we need to see university education as more than job training?

Mine likewise @BruFord !

Of course 'engineering' covers a vast range, as does 'science'. My DH and I both have chemistry PhDs, which were fundamental to our careers but these have been completely different.