Please tell me I'm not alone

[Mememoo]

Hi all, not sure what I want from this really I'm more curious but I suppose also want to know (hoping) I'm not the only one, and any advice is always welcome too. Everytime i search zero sleep with newborn i get threads come up with mums complaining about lack of sleep because all they get is 2-6hr stretches a night. When I say im getting no sleep I literally mean NO sleep (unless u count my head bobbing and having to jump up because I've dozed off holding baby on the SOFA I knowww u can't make me feel worse hold the mum shaming PLEASE 🙏 !!! so basically my baby is 4 weeks old he sleeps pretty much allday in his moses basket, other than waking to eat (he eats alot he never lost weight after birth) probably every hour but goes straight back to sleep after but come nightime he'll still sleep but wont be put down in his moses basket he literally just wants to be held constant and everytime i try he will wake up within 10mins max and only settle if I feed him again so I literally get zero sleep. He eventually settles down and allows himself to be put down around 6am (sometimes) which is not long before my toddler (21months) wakes up for the day?! Anyone else gone through this? How did u cope (I don't have a village to help) what r some quiet activities i can do to keep myself awake whilst holding baby? If it helps... Hes combination fed and IM NOT and will NOT co sleep. Hes my 3rd. Norn by C section .Thanks in advance sorry for long post 🤪

Cosleeping saved my sanity.

How Why, because i won't co sleep do u mean? and i never said i was wondering why it's hard i asked if anyone else had gone through this and what they done like i said more out of curiosity. I said why were not sending her to nursery and I'm not co sleeping. My toddler gets plenty of company but I don't have people to babysit etc so I have people but not for help which is fine i never said I wanted it just stated the fact before people jumped in with get someone to look after kids so u can Nap haha

Have any friends or family at all done the usual offer of 'let me know if you need anything ' and you could offload the toddler for a morning and sleep?

Could DH take any time off work (paid or unpaid) to let you sleep?

You can’t function on no sleep, it’s unhealthy & you won’t make safe sensible decisions. If you don’t feel co sleeping is safe for you, then that’s ok (for now). Your DH is obviously prepared to help if he’s told you to wake him, so use that & tell him you will sleep between 8pm -midnight. Then another hour after he gets up, before going to work. Then you get some sleep & he gets unbroken sleep (just less than usual) You both can manage on less than ideal quantity of sleep for a few weeks. You can then make long term plans whilst at least getting a bit of sleep. Tag team it for now.

Just to add to those saying about getting him used to day/night, it’s good to have different places for day and night sleep. Mine slept downstairs in their prams during the day and in their Moses basket/cot in my bedroom at night when they were little babies. Maybe that goes against what mums are advised these days but mine didn’t go without a contact nap or two either.

I’m the same OP when it comes to the thought of co-sleeping but even though this won’t last forever, you’re going to need to get some sleep somehow and maybe it could be the answer if done safely.

Editing to add we’re all told about the wonderful newborn bubble and how amazing it is - except when the reality isn’t when you’ve older children to run round after, little help etc and on little sleep. It will pass but you need to think of the here and now and if co-sleeping isn’t an option I’d be taking your partner up on his offer, even every second or third night.

Co-sleeping. Infinitely safer than falling asleep in the sofa accidentally and most breastfeeding mums are doing it whether they mention it or not. You cannot survive without sleep. Read the cosleeping advice on the lullaby trust website, then Practice feeding laying in your side. Then get some sleep before you lose your mind

Co sleep

Nobody can advise you on how to stay awake and not sleep at all for a prolonged time.
Would it be an option to try a daytime nap for all 3 of you at the same time ?
I woke up with 2 of my babies on my chest, 2 different babies, with the best intentions not to fall asleep, was very scary and I had the big light on, background noise on etc, thinking it would keep me awake.
Co sleeping helped me. Husband out of the bed and baby not too close to me.

I'm just back from a drive with my 3 year old to get him to sleep 😬 I would even try this with both of them to try to get a day time nap for you all.

Ah ok didn't see you were bottle feeding, that changes it up a bit. Have you tried encouraging a bigger feed to get some space in between feeds. Next to me for so you can lay a hand in baby. White noise, like a tuned out radio. Cot sheet that smells like you. Warm the crib before putting baby in it. Something wobbly that will very gentle vibrate at the end of the mattress.
I'd be throwing everything at this now as you need sleep, it's not optional. If you have a partner they need to share the load. You cannot live without sleep.

When you're that tired, if you close your eyes for a few seconds you might not wake up. More dangerous for you all than co sleeping.

I wanted to avoid the Inevitable judgement but I can't co sleep because I am a smoker...shoot me now! We only have a 2bedroom flat and have 3 kids so the toddler is in our bedroom still so makes it hard for one of us to go to bed early as her bedtime routine is done in there dressed after bath, storytime etc so me and baby are basically living in the frontroom so he's sleeping in the same place for fahtime naps and bedtime which as you said he shouldn't be, just feels so overwhelming like everything is wrong and when I find one solution another obstacle quickly gets in the way and I need to find another...co sleep- I smoke and bottle feed plus I'm a big mover, daylight- as i said its hard to get out i also live on the third floor with no lift, bugger feed- he's already eating more than the average, me sleep early- interferes with toddlers bedtime routine. Gonna have to go back to shifts with dh (although that's a ling story in itself as to why I really don't want to) and as for anyone else I don't leave my kids with anyone this young nit that I have anyone I would trust enough to anyway

Co-sleeping is the only solution I ever found but can see why you don't want to. Had to feed to sleep anyway, just being in the bed wasn't enough.
My first was a no-sleeper because he was a (gorgeous) restless little demon. The second one had reflux and once he was on the baby gaviscon did improve a bit.

It's torture though, you have my sympathies. I wouldn't be putting my 21 month old in nursery either. You will have to switch off with your husband though I think because you can't just not sleep. Mine wasn't always that nice about it but I didn't have a choice. I used to start falling asleep on sofa and my older child would yell to wake me up lol.

I was going to suggest getting your DH to do more so you can sleep when he's home, would this be possible?
You've said you don't want to get him to help, is that specific to full shifts or is he able to take over for a few hours after dinner so you can have a decent sleep before the night time waking? I suppose everyone has different meanings of a shift.
Say from 8pm to 11pm?
Or get up earlier in the morning so you can have a few hours then?
It's not going to be forever, I do sympathise as I remember those days and sleepless like that is awful.

So I woke dh up at 3:30am and went to sleep until 7am when he left for work. Feel terrible he's been up since 3.30am and now got to go to work. Just need to remember my job is also work which is dangerous and hard to do tired he's brilliant and wants to help 50/50 I guess I just feel inadequate as his culture is for woman to look after kids men only to work feel like his workmates will tell there wives and they'll all talk about me how I NEED help and they all done it by themselves etc etc can't bloody win but aslong as my babies r safe that's the most important thing, let them judge

If they judge that’s their problem. Of course your DH should be taking his turn at night, unless he does driving for a job.

I haven't read every post so hopefully not repeating what's already been suggested too much!

Daytime you want to get the baby out into the fresh air and daylight if possible. If you will struggle with a pram due to stairs you could try using a stretchy baby wrap. Daytime sleeps should be with natural light and background noise (so don't draw blinds and curtains or turn off TV etc). Whereas nighttime you want to keep everything dark and quiet. Baby should get to grips with the day/night difference by around 3 months old

Nighttime I know you said you tried swaddling but have you tried a swaddle bag? The Love to Dream swaddle bags were the only way we got our baby to settle in the Moses basket at night. I understand your reluctance to cosleep as you are a smoker.

I also agree about getting your husband to help out more.

Ah right co-sleeping is out.

I'd personally send the toddler to nursery for a bit if you can say 3 mornings a week?

Can your partner eat dinner with the toddler early ish and then go to bed pretty soon after the toddler does- so 8/9ish? If he wakes at 3.30 he would still have had around 6/ 7 hours sleep so more than enough to work on. If you’re worried about him working after being up from 3.30 am then swap the shifts- so you sleep early with the toddler and then get up from 2ish- he sleeps from 2 to 7.30 or whatever and then naps in the evening when he’s on duty, if baby and toddler are asleep.

Have you also considered moving the toddler in with older child, as then you don’t need to worry about disturbing them (my toddler was dead to the world once asleep though so I wouldn’t worry really if all you’re doing is walking in and then going to sleep).

I appreciate this all probably sounds a bit mad/ uncivilised but it’s only for a very short time. Don’t feel guilty too, I am sure your DH would rather be a bit knackered for a few weeks/months than have an accident at home.

I also don’t agree with the midwife, I think you need to try to get baby outside/ in the light, noise, fresh air during the daytime if you can- especially at this time of year.

At 4 weeks I wouldn't worry too much about day and night. I'd sleep in the day while DC sleeps and go with the flow. Mine barely slept at night till they were older so I patchworked it together from when they did sleep. Figured that's what mat leave was for, so I didn't have to follow the day/night delineation either. It's a shocker I know so I feel for you, but better to let go of the old ways and accept the ways of the new world you're in. It's the expectations that really do you in otherwise.

Your partner needs to step up and you need to let him do it.

Go to bed when he gets home for 2-3 hours. You've dealt with both children all day, he can manage for a bit.

Then get him up at 4am so you can have a few more hours sleep.

Or whatever schedule works for you - you need to get some sleep!!

Also agree don't be a martyr about your toddler- put him in nursery for at least a few half days - he'll appreciate the activity and you can sleep when baby sleeps. Honestly it will be much more interesting for him than a half asleep mum stuck in the house

OP I hear you and see you, I went through this too. I don't think people can quite imagine how difficult it is if they haven't experienced it.

Have you looked at using a bed nest? It's basically a three sided cot which attaches to the side of your bed. The non-sided edge attaches and so your baby is safely in their own space but you can lie down beside them and keep physical contact.
This was the best solution I came up with and it did help. I'd spent 3 months only getting 20 mins of sleep at a time and using the bed nest meant I could get 2-3 hours here and there. And if I wasn't asleep at least I was lying down.
Don't know if this is still the case but you used to be able to rent them from NCT

I had a similar situation after my DS was born. He had reflux and didn't settle well. He groaned and grunted a lot overnight. I was hallucinating from lack of sleep and dangerously low in mood. All my friends worked during the day and my family were miles away. In the end my DH and I had to change our sleep patterns for a few weeks. He had a hot meal at lunch in the work canteen, he got home at 6pm, fixed himself a quick sandwich and took over with DS, put him down to bed and stayed up till midnight doing a late feed. I slept from 6pm until midnight and then DS had me up most of the time through the night. I also paid for about 5 hours of childcare on a Wednesday daytime to enable me have a catch up sleep.

We did this for about six-eight weeks. After that DS sleep pattern slowly improved and I started getting some sleep in the early hours too.

I've heard warming the cot with a hot water bottle before putting them down helps them settle easier too. (Obviously remove hot water bottle once the baby is in the cot!)

I'm not going to lie, it is a hellish stage. Thinking of you OP.

I would bolt a cot (no side) to the side of your bed and you use a sleeping bag. Like a safer version of co-sleeping. Wish I had done this with my first but I was too scared, planning to do it with my second though as it would have made it a lot easier!

Hi op, you're not alone. When my dc1 was five weeks old I was getting zero sleep most nights, just surviving on the odd hour during the day. It was horrific. But after five weeks things drastically improved and by 12 weeks she was sleeping through the night and I could get 7-8 hours unbroken sleep. Hang in there!!!

I really don't understand how co sleeping works for everyone he would still want to be held lying beside with me touching him and being able to smell me wouldn't cut it, he literally wants to be in arms