That ship has sailed

[Grooveisintheheartbaby]

My company want us back to the office 5 days a week. As far as I and colleagues are concerned that ship has sailed and we will not be coming back we will leave. AIBU to think that businesses need to accept that things changed in covid forever and they can't reverse it without massive disrest and unhappiness?

Since everyone keeps saying "well before COVID I worked in the office five days" Before COVID it cost me about £40 to fill up my car, it's now £65/70. Before COVID (i've changed jobs since then) my current commute would cost about £20 a day, it's now £34 (with a railcard). Have all these employers given actual cost of living increases over the past five years? Or are they just expecting that same salary to stretch 5 times further so people can sit in an office on teams all day.

I genuinely couldn't afford to go back 5 days, luckily we're hybrid and really struggle to recruit so they don't want to rock the boat too much. I find 2 days in the office is a nice happy medium. I try and schedule all my meetings for those days then do my admin days at home.

I also find that on my office days regardless of what i'm doing i'm clock watching from 3:45. I need to be out of the door bang on 4 to make sure I get my train, even if i'm in the middle of something. At home i'll happily work until 5/6 to finish up a task if needed. But absolutely no chance am I staying in the office until 5 to then wait for a train then commute for an hour.

I wish working from home was an option where I work, at least occasionally. I spend 2 hours driving to sit in a small room of people exchanging germs and making constant noise, under bright lights that require special glasses to avoid migraines. The cleaning is inadequate and actually poses an infection control risk, and I have to walk past rough sleepers (who are occasionally abusive). The temperature is always too hot or too cold and every time something breaks we spend hours chasing down maintenance. It's hard to see how this is more productive.

I don’t agree most employers base productivity on how green people are on teams, however, I do notice a correlation between those who always appear orange and how much work gets done.

I base productivity on frequency of output of good quality deliverables. In my org this will be papers and publications drafted, activities towards set milestones achieved, stakeholder relationships created, plans developed, tech development etc.

Its very easy to see who is delivering these things and who is not. Its usually the ones who are often orange who are the latter.

I’m targeted in my management of slackers and will give poor performance reviews. I want to avoid slackers spoiling it for others. Unfortunately in many organisations the slackers think they’re clever and people can’t tell. They can, it’s just that weak management won’t deal with it effectively. This is why whole orgs are being made to come in more. If productivity was genuinely higher for the org, they’d keep everyone at home, but it isn’t in many cases.

I had a conversation with a friend who works in recruitment the other day. She told me that the roles they're filling now all have hefty 'in office' requirements, 3 days minimum, but increasingly 4 and 5.

From what see can see employers are very much over remote working. She's in a particular sector, so perhaps not universal, but interesting.

The government of the time pushed for people to go back into offices after Covid because businesses that catered for the worker in towns and cities were being hit.

The same government, and its Labour successor, are now pushing for 'economically inactive' people to get back into the workplace. What is often unsaid is that the large rise in economically inactive people has been driven by the rise in state pension ages - many of those people are women aged 60+ who can no longer retire.

Where I'm going with this - I don't think anyone would argue that working from home is easier simply because travel is eliminated, and it's particularly easier for people with the sort of chronic health conditions that develop with age - if your journey to work is going to tire you out or set off aches and pains, of course it is easier to start the day completely fresh at home; and have the option of a proper rest in your lunch break which an office wouldn't cater for.

In short, the government needs to make up its mind. If it wants economically inactive people back into the workplace, particularly those who, 20 years ago, would have been able to retire, it needs to encourage workplaces to adapt their terms and conditions to accommodate people whose health is no longer at its peak (before all the 65 year old marathon runners jump on me, I am aware not everyone suffers from poor health in middle age).

I work somewhere where we are never allowed to work from
Home, ever. Even on call at weekends. When every single one of our jobs could easily be done from home with no issue. I quite like being in the office but not needlessly at 7am on a Saturday. It's ridiculous. I won't be working there much longer.

This!

The Employers NI increase is going to have a big impact on future staffing plans
I think many will be looking at what they can do to streamline/automate jobs and increase productivity

If they can shed a few heads by insisting on back to the office, all the better
Not having to go through redundancy processes will save time and money

It's your choice @Grooveisintheheartbaby
Unless your contract was changed to WFH then you have no choice.
Either do as they ask, negotiate or find another job.
How did you manage 5 days before but can't now?

Which is exactly what OP has said they will do

So her thread's been a bit pointless!
If she knew the answer anyway what was the point in asking?

We brought staff back into the office days
Some people left ,I had predicted the ones who left,they were no loss
I can totally see why people like WFH,but for our business it is not as productive
We pay a bit over the going rate ,and have no problem with staff retention/ recruitment
If your employer wants you back ,you either go back or leave🤷‍♀️

I agree. My dh works in fintech. If his company demanded 5 days in the office, most of the employees would up and leave and easily get other jobs that are WFH/hybrid. So, it won't happen. The horse has bolted.

*anger

That will teach not to type and get ready at the same time 😂

Fundamentally, it depends on the business. Some of them are going to have to accept the ship has sailed whether they like it or not. Others have enough leverage to get staff back in, albeit maybe not the ones they currently have.

Well it depends on market conditions. Right now, for your husband, employees have a lot of power because demand for them outstrips supply. But that may change. It's changing in my industry right now.

It’s a AIBU thread ….. guessing they wanted to gauge mumsnet feelings towards this….. I trust you have voted?

These waaaaaah posts never get old.

They will if the talent goes with them. Hiring is an expensive business.

5 days in the office seems pretty outdated tbh. Hybrid model is defo the norm for many now.

This is the reality, move companies. Life changes and if companies can't accept change, then are the a good company to be with?

I think some managers have a rose tinted view of what it was like before covid when everyone worked in the office and have forgotten:

• all the meetings when a whole team would disappear for a couple of hours plus lunch. Nothing material would come from these meetings.
• all the office bugs which would roll round whole offices. One particularly memorable one where all the people working on a bank of desks turned green one by one and left early.
• hours of office time spent on decorating for Halloween, Christmas, baby showers, weddings
• hours of office time spent discussing holiday/Christmas/weekend plans

I now fully WFH. Teams meetings are short and focused. I am generally healthy and even on days when I feel a bit rough I can still work. Nobody decorates my office. All non work chats with colleagues are short.

If my employer decides I need to be in the office full time then my productivity and availability is going to take a major hit. I won't be starting early or finishing late if I have to tie in with catching trains. I will also be reviewing my retirement plans.

I am in a niche role as my previous employer only realised when I upped and left and they couldn't find a replacement at the price they were paying me.

They won't mind if you all leave...

It can cost thousands to hire one staff member in terms of job adverts & recruitment agents.

The entitlement of people since the pandemic is unreal. It's impossible for employers these days without people stamping their feet because they don't get to lounge around in their PJs at home pretending to work.
Granted SOME people might feel they are more productive at home but most aren't.

This is such crap. You do realise many people have jobs where if they weren’t doing their job it would be pretty evident.

Also loads of people don’t seem realise plenty did remote working prior to Covid!

No I haven't voted. I read all the OP's posts first before I posted and it's clear she has made a decision regardless of what anyone here says.
It's not compulsory to vote when an OP chooses to include that option.