That ship has sailed

[Grooveisintheheartbaby]

My company want us back to the office 5 days a week. As far as I and colleagues are concerned that ship has sailed and we will not be coming back we will leave. AIBU to think that businesses need to accept that things changed in covid forever and they can't reverse it without massive disrest and unhappiness?

Yeah this! If you were in the office full time before covid, then there is NO reason for you to not get back into the office. If your employer wants you back in, there is a reason for that. You are very likely underperforming.😒

@iamtheblcksheep · Today 02:31

I don’t want to listen to your screaming kids, barking dog or washing machine when I call you.

I think most are reluctant to return to work because they have given up their after school child care. If your kids are in the house and you’re the only adult there you aren’t working.

Exactly this too. ^ No way is everyone who works from home doing the job properly. Some people do, but some definitely bloody don't! Some people swing the lead when they are 'working' from home. Fact.

And as has been said, who the F wants to hear a barking dog or a crying baby when they're trying to discuss something important/crucial/financial/personal?!

Unless someone is self employed, the very idea of everyone working from home - full time - would have been laughed at 10+ years ago, and it should be laughed at now. No matter what the circumstances, even if people think they have special reasons to work from home, they need to get back into the office if their employer is demanding it. They worked in the office before covid, they do it now. No arguments!

Think it's knowledge you need rather than strength.

It's interesting how many people assume the relatively new concept of most people commuting a distance to a workplace outside their home is age old.

True, but if a job is workable remotely, why should we accept it as the norm again?

My DH works from home as a contractor on an hourly rate.

He got offered another contract one hour away from home for £2 an hour more. He turned it down.

If he factored in the extra 10 hours a week he'd be away from home, the adjusted hourly rate was less than what he was earning in the current role. Sure, in cash terms it's more, but he'll lose 10 hours to sitting in his car, in traffic, putting wear and tear on his car. On top of that, he's healthier than he ever was working in an office. He constantly had colds and viruses, which he then passed on to me.

I'm a massive advocate for hybrid/WFH, as long as it isn't abused.

Don't tar us all with the same brush - some of us don't have dogs or young children!

😆Do you also get frustrated with people who make use of running water rather than collecting it from the steam or well, as our ancestors did at the dawn of time?

I prefer to work from home and I can work from home, so I do work from home.

I am one of those people that have moved several hundred miles away from my place of work. It's certainly possible that my employer could insist on me coming into the office more than my current 3/4 times a month. If they do, my employer and I both know I'll have to leave. I didn't move blindly, but in the best interests of my family, knowing that I was taking a calculated risk. If it comes to it, I'll have to find another job, hopefully WFH.

Hiring people is expensive and disruptive. I’m not saying they’ll back down or change course necessarily but to say they ‘won’t mind’ is a massive leap. What makes you think that?

I want to defend water cooler moments- I’ve been in my role 7 months and there’s no way I would have settled in and made the progress I have without the casual chats in the office, knowing who did what etc.

We say 2 days a week in the office and we have been enforcing it more strictly. In general it’s been well received and people appreciate the balance.

We have some piss takers though. A more junior member of staff refused to get a meeting pack together for the deadline today as her kids are at home and she wants to spend time with them. Fine- that’s what annual leave is for. Not WFH using the whole afternoon. If she’s working she needs to be working and not with her kids. My kids were at holiday club today because I was working! HR are aware and going through performance review with my colleague- I don’t manage her.

the management are suspicious

That's always a recipe for disaster. In my entire working history, I don't think I've ever met anyone who comes to work with the conscious intention of doing a bad job, so that is always my start point. If they are under performing, it has always been for one of three reasons. They are either in the wrong job (and I am purposely not meaning when people need more training as that is a different thing), or they are protesting about something, or something is going on at home.

If the management don't trust the team, that is a pretty fundamental flaw and will cause more dissent than people under performing for one of the reasons above. If you look at the military, the best performing teams are the ones who trust each other even beyond where someone in the team isn't that good.

Anyway, we shouldn't hijack the thread.

Actually, for young people, working from the office is preferable, they are able to meet other form friendships and have the ability to learn more from others. They may not have such great facilities at home to work from if they flat share. It’s really tough for younger folk. It can be extremely lonely.

Personal experience!

Actually, there are young people who benefit from increased remote working opportunities. People need to stop using young people when what they actually mean is those young people who are able to work in office environments.

Then they were allowed to work from home and realised that they didn't need to do that commute and have time back to spend with family, doing what they want etc
preaching that reminds me if my father saying oh I walked 5 miles to school and back everyday all weather's we had to go to go to the toilet outside classrooms were heated by open fires. things progress it doesn't stay the same

I think it’s completely up to employers how frequently their staff are in the office. They do need to accept that five days per week will mean that some people won’t want to work for them or will leave to something more flexible. However, I think you’ll find that the mass exodus you anticipate probably won’t materialise.

similar to my friends husband. went for a job three rounds of interviews including one he had to make a presentation as it was a step up for him. they hummed and ahhed during interview over hybrid and flexi questions and siad things like oh iron it out on offer. offer came was a nice increase in wages plus bonus. but no flexi and absolute no work from home ever. he turned it down. it was over an hours commute each way and not a job where you can leave bang on finishing time. he trains the young soccer club twice a week evening time wouldn't have been home in time for that. also he wanted to be home some days when his kids come home from school. no extra money was worth loosing that he said. think they were very shocked when he said no. that was August and they still are recruiting for someone.

I’m someone who’s been very vocal about people slacking at home on this thread. But I don’t see what the woman in this example has done wrong. If she’s in back to back meetings and needs to walk and talk to stretch her legs that’s fine.

She could also be taking a meeting during her break or even her day off. In any case if she’s participating in the call then she’s working. She doesn’t have to be sat down indoors to achieve the same thing.

I’ve held meetings and given instructions to my team whilst walking. I have to as I’m sat down so much most of the time that I have to get outside occasionally and move.

This isn’t the same as using WFH time to look after your kids or have coffee with friends, do the gardening all afternoon, binge watch Netflix series etc.

Yes I’m lucky my HR department is very good. I think perhaps some managers feel out of depth managing hybrids or home employees. Pre Covid I worked 3 days at home and 2 in the office so it wasn’t a major thing for me anyway. I don’t find it difficult inducting new staff virtually or anything like that. We also cut our costs recently by reducing building capacity etc instead of making people redundant which to me is a better solution. Also, I moved teams this year and the one I was in before this had a mix of people working at home and those who wanted to go in and it still worked fine. Tbf I feel very lucky where I work after reading all these ignorant comments…we not only get to WFH full time if we want but shockingly I ALSO get flexitime so it’s fine to get my hair done as long as I make the time back! We also have very high staff satisfaction and retention, who’d have guessed it…

Poor Doris....
Although, it's more Alexandra who's on mumsnet all day and popping out to Gail's for her avocado toast when she's meant to be working.

WFH should be considered more than it is. Everyone saw over Covid that it is achievable and has great results. The work life balance in this country is so needed and long overdue. They’d have more people in employment due to less stress related long term sick issues. WFH has been invaluable for my DH and us as a family. I don’t blame you for wanting to leave. It’s a whole new world and should be promoted more. We save a lot of money on fuel and more importantly, we have the extra time.

Maybe they mean unrest?

You must have hired terrible staff for your organisation if you didn’t mind when they left. Hopefully you had a better process the next time around 😊

The ship has sailed into 2024 and I think people who work from home need to realise that it’s not 2020 anymore and if you’re wanted back in the office, then that’s what it’ll be.

What, and ignore the progress and changes of the last 4 years? In no other area are we going back in time

People who think it's this simple need to realise that it's not the 2019 job market anymore.

What I don’t understand on threads like these is why so many people are angry that others get to WFH?

That's the $64,000 question!