to feel differently about my friend now that she's had an abortion?

[pixiella]

Firstly - i have nothing against women who choose to have abortions, I'm pro-choice but still feel quite raw about having had a miscarriage a year ago (very much wanted baby) at 11 weeks,naturally me and my dp were devastated.

But 2 weeks ago one of my very best closest friends told me (at a party) that she had discovered she was pregnant 2 months ago and subsequently dumped the father and then had an abortion. I asked her if she was feeling sad and she said she was just relieved.
She said that at the time she had made a conscious decision not to tell me which is thoughtful but i wonder if that decision was based on her not wanting to hear what i would have to say about it.

When I was pregnant and told all my friends that we were going to keep the baby she came round to my house and tried to persuade me not to keep it and when i told her that i knew i would regret having an abortion for the rest of my life, she told me that i would regret having a baby more and that i would be ruining my life.

But once i explained my feelings to her and she realised that I really had thought long and hard about my decision and I wasn't going to change my mind, she layed off and said she was happy for me.

So back to the present - I told her that if she ever needed to talk that I was here...she has never brought the subject up again but in all honesty, if she did come to talk to me I don't know if i'd be able to know what to say to her. I don't feel as if I could even sit and listen to her talking about it without becoming upset.

I know it's irrational and in my head I know that having an abortion was the right thing for her because she didn't love the dad and they were breaking up anyway and she is very set on her 'life plan' etc.
BUT in my heart I just want to scream at her 'how could you?? how could you choose to have your baby's life terminated when I had no control over my baby dying' after all that she had seen me go through, I guess I just don't understand how she could do that because I couldn't do it, and because of my experience my feelings about babies and pregnancy and life have changed ALOT.

Now she is being her usual self again and is trying to seduce this new guy and keeps telling me about all her plans for the future. etc.

And I just feel sad and weird and I can't see her in the same way at the moment. I just don't even want to be around her right now.

I'm an awful person!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! : (

muggglewump, yes she went private. We have only talked about her termination properly, once! And that was about three years ago, just before she married her husband again. She said she woke up one morning and thought, I don't want H and if I have the baby I am tied to him, so she decided to have a termination. I asked her how she felt now (considering she was remarrying her husband) and she just shrugged her shoulders. I will say that I drove her to the clinic and home again. I will also say that I have never spoken to another soul about my feelings, not even my dh. In with that, I am signing off, as I have to go and eat a second bowl of Bread and butter pudding I made for my picky little eater!

Obviously I can't speak for her, but it's not that easy emotionally.
I'd shrug in real life, since the now ex best friend I've confided in someone who lives near me. I don't want to go into major details with her though, It doesn't mean I see it as any less than it was.

Hmm, I'm hungry, any spare?

Elizabethberesford, nearly all women who know immediately that they do not want to continue a pregnancy would much rather have the termination within 10 weeks. But if you are poor, you have to wait for your NHS appointment, which might be as long as 6-8 weeks. If you are very young and terrified, or old enough to think that your lack of periods is the beginning of the menopause, you might not know you are pregnant. And if you are having what was a planned and wanted pregnancy but discover that your partner is a paedophile/has become violent/is having sex with someone else, you may feel unable to continue with the pregnancy.
'As early as possible, as late as necessary' has to be the abortion right we defend.

muggglewump, Sis brought up the termination the one time we talked about it, I didn't. I have often wondered why, did she sense my unease and wonder why we had never talked about it before, or did she genuinly need to talk and something in my manner (however unintenional) put her off?
You have opened my eyes and made me think, I would never have thought that her reaction to our conversation was defensive, I thought it was how she really felt. Lets face it, my problem with her termination is just that MY problem. If her husband and her are all right about what happened thats all that matters.
enjoy [p&s scuttles of for just a smidge more.]

Madamez, you are absolutely right. I suppose I can't imagine not having a single penny to spare to pay for an abortion. I can also see why a woman who was dumped or cheated on would be unable to go through with motherhood. I always have more compassion for the mother and her dilemmas than I do for a foetus. It's just less of a quagmire when it's done early, early, early..... In a perfect World.

I had such a horrible row with my ex when I was 9 wks, he pulled a handful of hair out of my head. I did consider a termination. And I'm sure I could not have arranged it before 10 wks. I remember how I felt then. I did not want a termination. What I really wanted was not to be pregnant. That was then. Now I am so glad I have him.

ElizabethBeresford: I do know what you mean. We all make our own decisions according to our circumstances. When I was about 21 wks pregnant, I lost my job, and it crossed my mind that maybe I 'should' try to get a termination (all that stuff about how wicked it is to have babies when you can't afford them etc) - earlier on, at about 10 wks, DS' dad, who was not in a couple relationship with me and who had initially been supportive (and is now a fabulous loving father, so I am repeating this as something that happened rather than dissing him) said he couldn't cope with unexpected fatherhood and that I should terminate. On both occasions I remember having this incredibly deep feeling of rage and determination: I had decided that this pregnancy was a person and could not go back to seeing it as a problem.
But that was just what happened with me and I still entirely support the right of every woman to do what she sees fit, no matter what, no matter how upsetting I may find it, because women are people, not incubators, and a woman matters more than a foetus.

(BTW total off-the-point hijack... WOmbles?)

Pixiella - you're not an awful person for having private thoughts and feelings. I do think you must keep your opinions to yourself, though. Abortion is a personal choice. I don't think it should really be up for discussion, especially after the event. I also think your friend was wrong to try to persuade you not to keep your baby. It seems an odd thing to do. I really think friends are better off keeping their opinions to themselves and offering unbiased support and a listening ear in these types of situations. Nothing good can come from judging each other harshly.

pixiella. yanbu for having these feelings. abortion is such a touchy issue.

i think in your life you can go through cycles of how you'd feel about it.

when i got pregnant on the pill at 19 i did not agree with abortion. i felt that i had decided to have sex and we all know that no contraception is 100%.

however nowadays i dont feel so strongly at all.

a friend of mine had an abortion when dd was a few weeks old. i found it difficult to relate to her for a year or so, wasn't angry, just felt a bit sensitive as i was in new mummy mode. i felt like we were on completely opposite ends of the spectrum. but it will fade.

nowadays it doesn't bother me whatsoever. it wasn't easy for her, she did what she felt she had to do. we're back on track-she never noticed i felt a bit awkward.

give it time! dont give up on the friendship.

I think your friend should have kept her decision private in the circumstances of your miscarriage.

Perhaps I should leave this, I've thought of nothing else since I last posted and I'm getting myself all upset about it but to those that want to lower the limit for abortion or think people should have known earlier you just can't know who aborts late.
As I've said I did at 23 weeks but I didn't know untill 19 weeks and had to wait 4 more and then travel to London and find the money for the travel and a B&B for a night. I'm a single Mum on benefits so not easy although I had a bf who helped.
Whilst in the clinic I talked to other women, I was the oldest at 29 and the only one with a child, one woman was covered in cigarette burns and bruises and was leaving to go to a hostel, escaping her abusive bf, one was an asian girl, her family loved her and her bf but she knew they'd disown her forever for having a child outside of marriage, one was an 18 yr old, on her own, had come from Yorkshire, her Mum had thrown her out for aborting and she was getting abusive texts from her Dad whilst she was lying in a hospital bed, throwing up as GA had that affect on her.
I felt almost pleased that I could go home and carry on a normal life and I knew I'd have no regrets. Some of those women wanted their babies but knew life would be unbearable if they had them and I feel desperately sorry for them. I wish I'd got a number for them to keep in touch as the support just isn't there, unless you want a pro life talk before it.
Abortion is never nice, no one wants an abortion, what they want is not to be pregnant in the first place.
I know people judge, I know by saying this I'll be judged but try to understand that it's a horrible thing for anyone to go through but they have their reasons and do it as it's the best thing for them.
Wether they have regrets or not, they still have to live with the memories forever and trust me, it's not easy

Cammelia, why should the friend have kept quiet?

Why is it OK for one friend to talk about their life & traumas while expecting a friend not to talk about theirs? Just because they are 2 totally different set of circumstances, does not mean that one friend needs support any less than the other!

That isn't friendship!

I suffered for years trying to convince dh to even have children & during this time a friend aborted a baby after ending a bad relationship...I didn't judge her, nor expect her to keep quiet about it, just because I was having my own issues, granted not as painful as a MC, but painful enough when I thought my marriage was on the line.

The tables have turned now & I am on preg #2, while she has suffered a MC & is having big issues conceiving...we both need support & we both talk about our situations, because as friends we know how important it is to share & talk things through.

I don't think YABU, because feelings are feelings, and not really subject to reason. I was the same after my miscarriages, even though I know it's totally irrational because it's not my body or baby in question.

But there we are, massively emotive subject, and I think you've been given good advice about how to handle it. I think friendship is about being sensitive to your friends circumstances. Your friend doesn't really sound like she is terribly sensitive to yours, but people are complicated.

Sandcastles, I suppose I think that she should have kept quiet because one trauma was a choice (although possibly/probably an extremely hard one to make) and one wasn't.

I personally think the friend was being unreasonable in telling pixiella about the abortion in the first place.

From the OP it doesn't sound as thought the friend was traumatised & needing to talk about it anyway so why bring it up at all knowing about pixiella's loss?

I'm really sorry for what you went through pixiella & that your friend's thoughtlessness has brought it all up again. I hope you can come to terms with it all.

YANBU.

But you are being unreasonable to tell her she can talk to you about it if it makes you uncomfortable.

TBH, I can't believe you'd remain friends with anyone who, when you told them you were going to keep your baby, tried to persuade you otherwise.

That would have been the end for me.

Agree with expat.

As she told you a party it may not have been the right time to go into her true feelings about the abortion. You can feeel relieved and know that you've made the right choice for you at the same time as feeling sad and guilty for what you've lost, just becaus eshe didn't talk about it doesn't necessarily mean she has no other feelings on it.

Did she have a few drinks? It could have been easier for her to tell you when she was a bit tipsy, which is why she told you at a party. Also there wasn't much chance of going into it deeply at the party which might have happened had she told you whenit was just the two of you, so she may not want to dwell on it too much.
I think she was trying to be sensitive to your situation as she didn't tell you at the time and involve you in the process, but just mentioned it a couple of months after. And if she's a close friend it's something that she would want to tell you.

I've had 2 miscarriages ( never had an abortion but although I wouldn't ever have one I am totally pro choice) and I remember when my good friend told me she was pregnant just after my 2nd mc, I was shocked to find myself hoping that she would lose it too because I didn't want her to have a baby when I couldn't have one.
Obviously I didn't really want anything like that to happen, but when you lose a baby you think things that you wouldn't think had it not happened.

kazbeth - im not sure where you got the idea that i've been treating my friend any differently because i didn't say that in my OP and in my subsequent posts i have made it clear that although it brought up some painful feelings for me, i have not changed in the way i act towards my friend.

and expatinscotland - i told her she could talk to me when she was first telling me about it because i didn't know what i else to say, i was in shock and i thought that i should offer my support to her but when i got home i suddenly felt so upset and strange and weird i just can't explain it. and now i think about it, if she did start to talk to me about i don't think i could handle it.
but like i said, she hasn't tried to talk to me about it, infact she hasn't mentioned it again since.
and also i think our friendship has changed a bit and i see her differently now because of how she acted when i was pregnant.
i guess maybe we are drifting apart anyway and this hasn't really helped. : (
maybe it will get better once i come back from travelling.

I had two miscarriages and then a termination of a much wanted baby. Life is complicated - hers just as much as yours.

I've been through what you've been through and had subsequent pregnancies and I'm still pro choice and would do it all again if I had to.

I'm sorry for what you've been to but I'm afraid the fact is your horrible experience doesn't make you morally more able to judge what's right and wrong. You are just more sensitive to certain issues but not more right or more moral. So I think you're going to have to cut your friend some slack or stand back from her life till you are both less close to this issue.

Sorry about what happened. I hope life is looking up for you.

I do understand your POV, however, what is right for one person may be totally wrong for another. I think what is more upsetting for you is the fact that she isn't sad. I suspect that if she had said that she was sad that she couldn't have the baby due to circumstances, that you would be sympathetic. The fact that all she feels is relief has altered your perception and perhaps you feel it is hard faced? She may feel sad but doesn't want to admit it to herself, let alone you .
You aren't awful, but she isn't either.
She is still your friend and at some point may need you to talk to. I hope you can listen with an open mind.

My friend had an abortion and I went with her and waited and brought her home afterwards. She was with a git of a boyfriend who would have made a useless drunk of a father and she decided it was the wrong thing for her.

I was DESPERATE for a baby at the time, but I wanted my baby, not hers and that is how I dealt with supporting her.

People have very strong feelings about abortion, especially if they have ever been in a situation where the issue came up for them personally. Your friend should not have told you about it. As she told you at a party, maybe a few drinks had lowered her inhibitions. It's a big thing to keep quiet about, but she did you no favours offloading on to you.

'She is still your friend and at some point may need you to talk to. I hope you can listen with an open mind. '

See, I disagree. If it's THAT uncomfortable for her, she should tell her pal, just say something like, 'Look, I'm sorry that's happened to you, but I'm not really the best person to talk to about this and it gives me a lot of uncomfortable feelings.'

I don't see why a person should feel compelled to provide 'support' for something they have total moral objections to.