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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be fed up of the political manipulation on mumsnet

350 replies

ZenNudist · 31/10/2024 14:00

It's incessant and it's wearing. It's been going on for years and I'm fed up of the massive amount of tory party generated and lobbying content blocking up mumsnet.

I appreciate mumsnet is seen as a key voter demographic but a lot of the threads being posted are so transparently fiction.

The billion VAT on school fees threads must have been a mix of real people and tory HQ.

Fake outrage started immediately and now well into saying that with less than 4 Months of government and before enacting their first budget the Labour Party are apparently making a mess of everything and reversing the great gains made during tory rule. What great gains? I don't know. I saw one post trying to take tory credit for reducing inflation like that was Rishi's doing, laughable.

I also have seen a few fake scenarios for adverse impact of the budget on inheritance and small business taxation. Speaking as someone who will be adversely affects by increasing employer NI and the reduction in business property relief I still support these changes. My friends who are small business owners feel the same way.

Labour promised not to put up the main rates of income tax and employee NI. They were clear that measures would need to be taken to increase the tax take. They still are trying to drive growth because at the end if the day increasing the tax base is the best way of increasing revenue to the exchequer.

I know a lot of mumsnetters say they can't spot trolls or AI threads. I also think a lot of people will not spot the blatant manipulation by lobbyists and tory campaigners.

Tory party now playing a long game.

The Tory party is funded by the rich for the benefit of the rich. The rest of the middle, the poor, the marginalised have almost no voice and no one funding a political machine to work in our favour.

OP posts:
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User37482 · 31/10/2024 20:33

I don’t think you have to respect all opinions but I think it’s reasonable to argue against the point rather than try to undermine personal credibility. Even if you believe it’s a paid influencer, you should be able to put together a cogent argument to communicate your point. Otherwise you just end up looking conspiratorially, weak and childish. It says “I can’t actually refute your point, so I’ll cast aspersion on your character and motives instead.

I deeply dislike the way people argue these days. We’ve lost something.

NoCarbsForMe · 31/10/2024 20:35

hattie43 · 31/10/2024 14:19

I'm fed up with how the left can't have a debate without resorting to personal attack and insult throwing .

Then maybe Tories shouldn't be such fuckwits? 🤷🏻‍♀️

TooBigForMyBoots · 31/10/2024 20:39

I'm not sure all the manipulation is coming from from the Tory party. No doubt some of it is, but not all.

Some things I've noticed and experienced is a lot of posters who don't live in the UK being repeatedly very vocal on how British citizens vote and a tendency of some right wingers to stalk posters across the boards and co-ordinate campaigns against individuals.Hmm

Undoubtedly some are from CCHQ, but others come from abroad. It would be naive for us to think Mnet escapes the attention of troll farms.

Saying that, I think that some Labour supporters need to recognise that their party is in power now. And that comes with criticism.🤷‍♀️

JRSKSSBH · 31/10/2024 20:41

Savingthehedgehogs · 31/10/2024 20:08

Did op really believe after such a poor and lacklustre performance that MN was going to be singing Labour’s praises?

Labour got in on false promises and fake news, and a manufactured public sector crisis led by the unions.
And now they are like children with the keys to Daddy’s car and our credit card on tap. It is scary for the rest of us. The adults in the room.

You can continue to play your anthem of bots and Tory HQ because the public are dismayed and disappointed, and are coming here to express themselves. But honestly could you at least change the record? Maybe AI and Elon Musk? It shows a lack of creativity and imagination by screeching bot every time someone says quite accurately that Labour are <word of choice>

Edited

Couldn't agree more.

MrsCobbit · 31/10/2024 20:42

Mumsnet needs to pull the AI posts - they are beyond boring

ShinyShona · 31/10/2024 20:45

hattie43 · 31/10/2024 14:19

I'm fed up with how the left can't have a debate without resorting to personal attack and insult throwing .

In my experience, it takes a right wing person 3 posts to call their opponent a Marxist, a Communist or woke rather than continue engaging with the debate. It's normally after rather than before that point that they get insulted.

republicofjam · 31/10/2024 20:50

Savingthehedgehogs · 31/10/2024 14:51

Labour are failing - it’s been an abysmal start and it’s so typical of a Labour supporter to blame everyone else for this unfolding car crash rather than take responsibility for it themselves. Absolutely classic gas lighting. Every time they lose the argument they scream bot - on repeat,

I might say that it's typical of a Tory supporter to have forgotten the car crash of a government we had for several years and refuse to take any responsibility for their legacy whilst also blaming everything on a party that's been in power a scant few months. I might, but that would be an inaccurate generalisation of all Tory supporters and not really very useful unless, of course, I was simply looking to insult rather than debate.

Savingthehedgehogs · 31/10/2024 20:54

username7891 · 31/10/2024 20:22

Do you respect all opinions?

Of course!

I listened to those that said Labour would transform this country’s fortunes and the NHS. That they will force companies like Amazon to pay their way and we can look forward to sunny uplands…

Oh wait…

username7891 · 31/10/2024 20:57

Savingthehedgehogs · 31/10/2024 20:54

Of course!

I listened to those that said Labour would transform this country’s fortunes and the NHS. That they will force companies like Amazon to pay their way and we can look forward to sunny uplands…

Oh wait…

So you respect the opinions of people who believe in child marriage, shooting at asylum seekers or lack of education for girls? There's no opinion you don't respect or listen to?

StoneofDestiny · 31/10/2024 20:58

Interesting these businesses can't think of reducing their profit margins - they just think of hiking up prices or sacking staff. Surprise surprise.

schloss · 31/10/2024 21:00

republicofjam · 31/10/2024 20:50

I might say that it's typical of a Tory supporter to have forgotten the car crash of a government we had for several years and refuse to take any responsibility for their legacy whilst also blaming everything on a party that's been in power a scant few months. I might, but that would be an inaccurate generalisation of all Tory supporters and not really very useful unless, of course, I was simply looking to insult rather than debate.

Previous governments of any party being bad, does not give the current Labour party a free ride to cause problems and hardship for many.

Saying the government is not as bad as the one the replaced is not a badge of honour.

Labour and their supporters need to learn that not everyone agrees with their policies, their manifesto "promises" or their recent budget, and those who do not agree may not neccesarily have been Tory, or any other party voters.

To those of you who think everything Labour is doing or is likely to do, fine, just do not criticise those who do not agree. People do have different opinions to you.

Maria1979 · 31/10/2024 21:01

@ZenNudist I must be really stupid or cupid because I haven't noticed any fake political posters. Just people expressing different standpoints to the left and to the right. I wouldn't be able to say if most people here are Tory or Labour because most threads are about relationships and not politics.

Savingthehedgehogs · 31/10/2024 21:03

username7891 · 31/10/2024 20:57

So you respect the opinions of people who believe in child marriage, shooting at asylum seekers or lack of education for girls? There's no opinion you don't respect or listen to?

I can listen but disagree. I don’t feel so indignant and outraged that I can’t at least listen to their POV.

I have spent years in the ME and living overseas - visiting Africa etc and there is a massive variation of civilisations and cultures. I don’t have fixed, rigid views - I would rather remain open to changing my mindset and learning new ways of doing things. In reality most of us exist in shades of grey and silver - not black and white.

echt · 31/10/2024 21:03

NoCarbsForMe · 31/10/2024 20:35

Then maybe Tories shouldn't be such fuckwits? 🤷🏻‍♀️

You beat me to it, NoCarbsForMe

Posted from Australia, where I exercise my vote in the UK.

Bwahahahaha.

TempestTost · 31/10/2024 21:03

There were plenty of anti-Tory threads on here when they were in power.

Just because you don't agree with people, or even are thinking they are over-discussing, doesn't make them "fake".

username7891 · 31/10/2024 21:04

StoneofDestiny · 31/10/2024 20:58

Interesting these businesses can't think of reducing their profit margins - they just think of hiking up prices or sacking staff. Surprise surprise.

I know. People have drunk the capitalist Kool aid. CEOs couldn't possibly not have a bonus or reduce their huge wages, the company couldn't possibly reduce its profits. God forbid the fat cats don't get the cream.

Perplexed20 · 31/10/2024 21:04

Yep. It can make mumsnet really irritating.

NeckolasCage · 31/10/2024 21:06

Yes but they generally get their arses handed to them, whichever colour the arse is

schloss · 31/10/2024 21:09

username7891 · 31/10/2024 21:04

I know. People have drunk the capitalist Kool aid. CEOs couldn't possibly not have a bonus or reduce their huge wages, the company couldn't possibly reduce its profits. God forbid the fat cats don't get the cream.

Yes and all businesses make huge profits, all owners, or CEO's have mega salaries and treat all staff very badly - in the real world there are many businesses who plough any profit, if there is any, directly back into the business. All the changes in the budget will lead to is the end of many businesses, therefore more people unemployed, or in order to meet the increase in costs, those businesses which do survive will lay off staff.

republicofjam · 31/10/2024 21:10

schloss · 31/10/2024 21:00

Previous governments of any party being bad, does not give the current Labour party a free ride to cause problems and hardship for many.

Saying the government is not as bad as the one the replaced is not a badge of honour.

Labour and their supporters need to learn that not everyone agrees with their policies, their manifesto "promises" or their recent budget, and those who do not agree may not neccesarily have been Tory, or any other party voters.

To those of you who think everything Labour is doing or is likely to do, fine, just do not criticise those who do not agree. People do have different opinions to you.

I didn't say it gave them a free ride neither did I say that everything Labour was doing was right.Please read my post and the one I was replying to.

username7891 · 31/10/2024 21:13

schloss · 31/10/2024 21:09

Yes and all businesses make huge profits, all owners, or CEO's have mega salaries and treat all staff very badly - in the real world there are many businesses who plough any profit, if there is any, directly back into the business. All the changes in the budget will lead to is the end of many businesses, therefore more people unemployed, or in order to meet the increase in costs, those businesses which do survive will lay off staff.

So the majority of businesses are non profits, acting from the goodness of their hearts? They'll be pleased to pay their workers enough to live on then and contribute towards failing public services. It's a win-win.

ShinyShona · 31/10/2024 21:14

schloss · 31/10/2024 21:09

Yes and all businesses make huge profits, all owners, or CEO's have mega salaries and treat all staff very badly - in the real world there are many businesses who plough any profit, if there is any, directly back into the business. All the changes in the budget will lead to is the end of many businesses, therefore more people unemployed, or in order to meet the increase in costs, those businesses which do survive will lay off staff.

There are good and bad businesses but a lot of the worst employers are small businesses. A particularly indignant woman during the 2017 election sticks in my mind when she was trying to defend her right to carry on employing someone on an absolute pittance. If these small business owners weren't so protected from the real world by government intervention such as subsidising their employees with universal credit, their businesses wouldn't be able to hire anyone and they would fail. When business owners reward themselves well and treat their employees like crap, I think government absolutely has a role to tax them in order to redistribute a fair share of the profit to employees. When businesses start playing fair, this kind of redistribution will no longer be necessary.

schloss · 31/10/2024 21:15

username7891 · 31/10/2024 21:13

So the majority of businesses are non profits, acting from the goodness of their hearts? They'll be pleased to pay their workers enough to live on then and contribute towards failing public services. It's a win-win.

You know exactly what I mean, or if you don't you should take your rose (red) tinted glasses off and understand there are many businesses struggling to survive and the changes announced yesterday will cause considerable harm to the business and employees.

schloss · 31/10/2024 21:16

republicofjam · 31/10/2024 21:10

I didn't say it gave them a free ride neither did I say that everything Labour was doing was right.Please read my post and the one I was replying to.

Apologies on my part, my comments were my opinion thinking basically 2 wrongs do not make it right.

username7891 · 31/10/2024 21:19

schloss · 31/10/2024 21:15

You know exactly what I mean, or if you don't you should take your rose (red) tinted glasses off and understand there are many businesses struggling to survive and the changes announced yesterday will cause considerable harm to the business and employees.

You were trying to convince me that many businesses put whatever profit they have back into the business:

... there are many businesses who plough any profit, if there is any, directly back into the business.

Denying the fact that businesses make profits. And now you're telling me that I have rose tinted spectacles on.

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